at my wits end with 5 month old - resource guarding and other issues

[CircetheWitch]

Namechanged as feeling so shit about all this. Sorry it's so long.

We've got a 5 month old puppy. I'm so concerned that she has the makings of an aggressive adult dog and I'm increasingly struggling to manage my stress and anxiety over her. Part of me is beginning to think we made a big mistake and I've got to confess I'm not enjoying this.

The main worry is her resource guarding. Believe me, I am trying. We've had a behaviourist over who gave advice. I've watched dozens of videos/read a lot. I have done lots of 'leave it' and swapping training, which works sometimes, but by no means always - and I am so worried.

We always, always, try to exchange treats for whatever she's got so she learns it's in her interest to do what we ask her. Like I said, sometimes it works, but over the past month or so she has started really snarling, baring teeth and air snapping if she senses something is about to be taken from her - it's horrible when it happens. I do lots of handfeeding so she associates hands with good things, but this is still an issue. I watch owners who can prise things out of their dogs' mouths easily and I think she'll never get there.

I've got three kids (all over 9) who know not to try to take stuff from her -. but I worry, say, that one could drop something and if she's shown an interest in whatever it is, they might go to take it without thinking and she will snarl and eventually could bite. I worry about them having friends over and what could happen. Most of all I worry about where this is going. She's also growled a few times at being moved or picked up (which we don't do often as she's a large dog and already big).

She's a mix of breeds known to be intelligent and also very sweet natured - I'm concerned she's actually not. Her parents are both lovely as far as I know. She doesn't show any other reactivity towards people or other dogs (aware guarding is rooted in fear) - if anything she's over-friendly, gets very bouncy and jumps up etc. She mouthed an awful lot when she was younger and still does a bit, but this is calming down.

DH thinks that with management and training that this is something that will pass. Is he right? I read an old thread on here about a puppy that showed similar guarding issues and despite masses of training, never quite got over it. Can anyone reassure me or help? I'm really stressed about it. Thanks in advance

@Sertchgi123 - thanks. That's interesting. She IS very smart I think. Housetrained super quickly, learnt 'sit'/'stay'/'leave it' very fast etc. I outlined what we do in a day above. Perhaps it isn't enough? Would love to hear thoughts.

If we're out and she gets something she shouldn't have it's usually litter people have left lying about - discarded face masks seem to be a particular issue at the moment . I COULD keep her on the lead all the time but this would be a shame I think.

At home we do try to minimise what she can get hold of, but it sometimes happens. One of those plastic wrappers that goes around the lid of a jar fell down in the kitchen the other day. She started chewing on it and without thinking DH bent down to get it and that's when she snarled. I've stopped giving her things that seem to make her particularly possessive like pigs ears.

With correct guidance in rl I reckon the future looks bright and sunny. You have a clever, active eager dog that will be great fun to be with andyou should have many happy years together

@PollyRoulson

Evident early on an this is her I would say that she is a very clever puppy who has worked out what gets a reaction - she is a puppy who wants to play and this is giving her the opportunity to do so.

This is why a behaviourist should be looking at the holistic approach and not just the guarding.

In an ideal world you would totally ignore her when she has things - walk away and close the door on her. However in reality you can not do this if she destroys things and they are a danger to her.

Thats why prevention is so important.

resource quarding is not usually a precursor to aggression but I am in the internet and not seeing the situation in real life

I completely agree with this. ^

You need to stop her getting things, first and most importantly.

Secondly, in a relaxed way you need to train her to drop things and leave things. This training should not be related to her undesired behaviour, it should be completely separate.

Training has to be frequent and consistent.

@PollyRoulson - thank you, your last post made me well up a bit. I have been so stressed and worried.

I've been so focused on keeping her calm and letting her get enough sleep when we're at home, that perhaps I am neglecting to play with her as much as she needs. Certainly when we're out she's extremely playful with other dogs.

Don't let her off the lead until you've trained her. This is important as if she eats something horrible it could be really serious.

@PollyRoulson

With correct guidance in rl I reckon the future looks bright and sunny. You have a clever, active eager dog that will be great fun to be with andyou should have many happy years together

Me too. But puppies are hard work and honestly your reaction to her is what is concerning, it’s very dramatic, even the sitting crying.

She’s just a puppy. They take time and perseverance and are without doubt hard work, you need to put the effort in.

This is clearly a smart dog, but I’d be concerned you’re not bonding with her and don’t fundamentally want her, hence your reaction.

I think now the time to decide if you are able or willing to do this. As the trainer /behaviourist told you there is nothing to be concerned about here. It’s just a learning curve for a very young dog.

@Sertchgi123 - 'Secondly, in a relaxed way you need to train her to drop things and leave things.'

• yes, we've been doing this in training and I've definitely seen a difference in her at times. It's great that she will sometimes leave or drop something when we ask her to. But with certain things, she will growl or snarl and just not give them up....and this is what worries me.

With certain things? You need to use something you know won't cause her to growl.

You're worrying and I understand that but she can be trained. Patience, persistence, consistency.

@Bluntness100 - I know puppies are hard work and I'm absolutely prepared for that, but I have to admit that this guarding issue has made me very anxious. My dogs growing up never displayed any aggression. I know lots of dogs who didn't exhibit this type of behaviour as pups, and all online advice that says 'resource guarding is a very serious issue' worry me too. I am hoping that this applies more to adult dogs though, and with the right training it IS something she can grow out of.

My golden retriever pup went through a phase of guarding, including the growling We stopped her having things she could guard and she grew out of it.

She grew up into the most gentle, loving dog you could wish for.

You sound like you're panicking and over reacting to normal dog behaviour.

She started chewing on it and without thinking DH bent down to get it and that's when she snarled.
Your DH needs to change his way of thinking. It’s a pain in the arse but from now on if your dog has something, even for a second, then you need to deal with it properly.

One of the most common things you’ll hear in our house is “can you call the dog?”. Because if he gets something he shouldn’t then instead of taking it off him someone will call him and he’ll have to rush about the house to find them. When he does the they make a big song and dance reward and give him a treat. It works so well that we say “can you call the dog?!” and he immediately knows what’s coming and rushes off to find someone without waiting for anyone to call him. (In the meantime the first person picks up whatever it was they didn’t want him to have.)

We play this game even when he doesn’t have anything. Running about looking for people is one of his favourite things to do.

If I’m alone and he gets something he shouldn’t then I first use the ‘touch’ command for him to touch his nose to my hand to get him away from the forbidden item. Then do a few more tricks for treats before going back to remove the item.

@Sertchgi123 - that's SO reassuring to hear your dog grew out of it. Thank you.

@BlueSlice - that's a really brilliant way to deal with it. I'll definitely try that if she gets anything that's not a risk to her. It's tricky though if it's something that needs to be dealt with fast. Also DH sometimes just loses patience with all these strategies - with the plastic wrapper he was just a bit 'pick the damn thing up, dog could choke on it' and she reacted.

[quote CircetheWitch]@Sertchgi123 - 'Secondly, in a relaxed way you need to train her to drop things and leave things.'

• yes, we've been doing this in training and I've definitely seen a difference in her at times. It's great that she will sometimes leave or drop something when we ask her to. But with certain things, she will growl or snarl and just not give them up....and this is what worries me.[/quote]

This is good and you ARE making progress - hang in there.

Keep working on the training. Also reinforce calm quiet behaviour and give her attention for that. If you're cooking/doing something where stuff may be dropped then make sure she's in her bed with a treat and keep chatting to her/reinforcing her calm behaviour away from you.
That minimises the opportunities for her grabbing anything.
As much as possible unless whatever she grabs is harmful, ignore the behaviour. For a dog like a collie even eye contact is positive reinforcement.

Try and engage her in nosework, or puzzle toys - things that are mentally and physically challenging.

It would also be worth muzzle training her so she's happy and comfortable in a Baskerville muzzle as that avoids her being at risk of scavenging something on walks. Just start by rewarding her for placing her nose in the muzzle - loads of videos online

@Veterinari - thank you. I'd like to avoid a muzzle if possible but yes to all the training advice. I hope her behaviour isn't coming from boredom/frustration. It does seem to be very 'instinctive' when she growls if that makes sense.

Lots of great advice here... can I add something?
Join the 'Reactive Dogs UK' group on FB...
They have incredible practical advice (files and files of it) and will also recommend a trainer where you live who is a fully accredited behaviourist, just incase you want a fresh eye.
Also... everyone on the group GETS it.. how distressing and worrying it is when your dog is displaying concerning behaviour. ..and that itself is so helpful.

I'd also consider muzzle training (they have a great file on that!) so that you can go out and not worry she'll pick up something dangerous.. I know a few dogs who are muzzled because they are bin raiders and have cost thousands having inedible objects removed from their guts!

I've just thought of something else to try. When you call your dog, have the most delicious treat ready to give to her. For example, in the early days of training we used a hot chicken, which our dog could absolutely not resist.

We used the chicken in the house, so she wasn't too far away and then transferred to the garden. If she was hesitant to come right back, we tried throwing some chicken towards her, so she knew then what was on offer.

If your dog is trained in this way, she will come when called. It might take some time but stick with it.

As someone else has said, if she takes something, then "someone call the dog" is a good plan.

We definitely found with training that the quality of the treats makes a difference.

@StillMedusa - thank you! Do I need to be on facebook to join the group though? (I'm not).

@Sertchgi123 - yes, I think we probably do need to up our treat game. Too often we rely on kibble type training treats, which she does enjoy but obviously don't come close to something like hot chicken!

I guess you probably do, sorry... I honestly think it would be worth getting a FB account for the group tho ( you don't have to add anyone else )

@stillmedusa - okay, I'll look into it. I've heard other people mention this group too and it sounds amazing

Resource guarding is hard... because as you’ve seen, they can suddenly decide random things are worth guarding...

But, it doesn’t indicate that she’ll develop other behavioural issues as well.

[quote CircetheWitch]@Veterinari - thank you. I'd like to avoid a muzzle if possible but yes to all the training advice. I hope her behaviour isn't coming from boredom/frustration. It does seem to be very 'instinctive' when she growls if that makes sense.[/quote]
Even if you'd like to avoid it, building a positive association with a muzzle is sensible and will reduce potential stressful events in future. You can let her off lead without worrying about scavenging, and take her to the vet without concerns. If she's properly trained she'll enjoy wearing her muzzle - a tool that keeps her and others safe. I don't know know why you'd want to avoid that? All dogs should be muzzle trained

[quote CircetheWitch]@StillMedusa - thank you! Do I need to be on facebook to join the group though? (I'm not).

@Sertchgi123 - yes, I think we probably do need to up our treat game. Too often we rely on kibble type training treats, which she does enjoy but obviously don't come close to something like hot chicken![/quote]
Yep I mentioned reinforcers below - if you're trading it has to be for something of equivalent/higher value, otherwise she still loses out. It's worth trying a few different things. Hotdogs work well

The other thing is to work on your reinforcers - use really nice food rewards, or think about tactile/attention or games as rewards depending on her motivations

We had a puppy that did this.
We started with the resource exchange but eventually felt that he was taking stuff to get the treats- he had loads of treats and in very other way was perfect- bright- quickly trained and generally a total delight.
We swapped to the word mine- and it become a battle of wills. The hour long stand off over a piece of lego. I removed all the places that he could go under- chairs, table etc

He is now 2.5 and he hasn’t done it at all for at least 9 months (taken stuff to protect and growled). He now gives up if you say mine and he walks away. He growled, snarled and snapped and no longer does that. It started when he was about 4 months and with hindsight we should have acted quicker.. It took a year to eradicate completely but only a few months to stop him 90% of the time. it was worst when he was about 8 months.

Have you tried doing some kind of activity or sport with her such as agility or fly all etc? If she is half collie and seems intelligent she should take to it and you might find it helps to build your bond more closely, and teaches her to listen more carefully to your commands. Plus the added benefit of wearing her out and using up some of the brain energy she has!

@polnm - thanks so much. That's really reassuring. I do feel better about it all today. I don't feel she's yet taking things to get treats but I feel that she's sometimes doing it for attention...it often escalates when the kids get home from school, for example. She'll be perfectly calm all day and once the house gets busier/nosier, she'll start grabbing cushions off the sofa Definitely attention seeking, and whenever possible we're trying to ignore/stay as calm as possible when it happens.

@lurchermom - I have thought about that but finding it difficult to find classes available given the current situation. Also wondering if she might be too young at 5 months to get into this yet? x