Puppy survival thread! July 2020

[Juiceey]

Roll up roll up... I'm a day late but here we are.

Latest update: Juiceypup is obsessed with DS's feet, who is now starting to get upset by it. He doesn't do it to anyone else, only him, and we don't know why. DS goes stock still as instructed but we have to prise his mouth open to get him off his toe. Has brought him to tears a few times.

Really hoping for a miracle for you @GingerAndTheBiscuits.

That's a very good deal @PuppyBonBon, think I've just paid £12 for 3 non-stuffed plush toys...shame I didn't see your post first! We've got a long crinkly snake coming, he loves trotting along trailing things behind himself. Some other bits and bobs and some cows ears to try. Never ending...

Oh God I feel like a terrible pup mum. After slagging DPup off all evening for being a pain she's just had terrible diarrhoea all across the kitchen. She was running for the door and couldn't hold it the poor thing, it was awful.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits I've got my fingers crossed for a miracle for you. Hope you don't have to say goodbye to your dpup

@Imadreamer44 oh poor pup!!! And poor you for the big clean up!! Hope pup feels better soon

Any tips on harness shopping? We're still using a collar but would like to upgrade. Can you get them so that they grow with them?

@Borris we have a perfect fit harness because you can choose the size of the pieces and it has a bazillion clips. It means that you can train them to love the harness being put on, one clip at a time. A lot of dogs can become headshy/scared of harness if it has to be put on over head/lift arm/clip etc where you might have to move them about a bit when they're not sure/not keen. This way you can literally attach piece by piece and praise between each clip. Some may call it overkill, but my previous dog was scared of her harness, so not taking the chance now.

Hi. Can I have some advice about biting please. I’ve vaguely been following the last 2 threads and know that lots of you have had varying levels of Bitey issues. I can’t remember the details though.
Dpup (toy poodle) has been with us since Saturday. He’s mainly wonderful :-) Sleeps a lot. Mainly lovely and calm when he’s awake. Seems to like his crate. We are having difficulty toilet training at the moment and I haven’t managed to get him to we or poo outside at all yet but that’s for another post...
He’s obviously very mouthy and that sometimes crosses into biting toes, trouser legs, nipping hands etc. I’m usually able to sort that by offering him a toy and that’s fine and totally what I was expecting.
However he sometimes seems to go into a mode where he wants to bite me. His mouth goes wider and he aims at my arms and jumps up towards my face. He only tiny and it doesn’t hurt but obviously it’s not good and it making me anxious. I try and react calmly (if at all) but I was wondering if anyone else has had this and what they did to help. I’m worried he’s going to be aggressive when he’s older.
Thank you
Ive attachments a pic of my pup looking like butter wouldn’t melt...

@AmigoDog How much is puppy sleeping? Puppies do get over tired really easily and can sleep for 16-20 hours a day. I’ve found that when my pup was getting tired then shark mode was activated really easily. He’s 21 weeks tomorrow and teething so he very rarely gets like this but it’s a normal part of puppy development. Kind of like an overtired toddler throwing a tantrum. If you aren’t already doing it, when he’s starting to get manic, pop her in a puppy proof place where he won’t be disturbed for a few hours kip. He’ll probably fight it at first - just like a toddler - but do persist because it does help.

If you are already making sure he gets enough sleep then do remember that this will pass eventually. It doesn’t mean he will be aggressive and it’s quite normal. Part of jumping at the face is that he wants his face to be close to yours so that he can see it better.

The mouthing and biting happened a lot here and I would have said was reducing but he's just lunged at me and bitten my nipple! 😭😭. Then my calf (plump and delicious )
It was reducing but he has been mad excited this morning and diving around and loves to play. I have just put him in his crate as he was getting wild and hurting me a lot.
What I would say is ignoring and walking away has worked to a degree here but early days it was hard to break the frenzy. I'm told it's normal though ... he's looking at me like butter wouldn't melt now too!

AmigoDog the only thing (I tried everything) that worked for me was to remove either myself or BiteyDog from the situation.

For example if he was starting his bitey mood I would go behind a baby gate and ignore him. When he was older I would remove him from the room or put him in his crate and ignore him. After a few mins I would let him out but if it happened again I would repeat the action. Basically his 'play' time stopped everytime he started biting. Given that he hated being away from us it really helped. It also meant if he was bitey because he was overtired or overstimulated by removing him from us he got the chance to calm down or have a snooze.

Thanks both. It’s reassuring to hear the first two replies have had similar experiences tbh.

He’s getting quite a lot of sleep (Or at least rest/down time), although I guess puppies need so much sleep he might be tired even after a short bout of being awake? The more purposeful biting can happen when he is noticeably tired - although it sometimes happens when he’s just woken too. Maybe that’s an over excitement thing? He woke up at 3:30 this morning as he needed the toilet (he fell asleep ‘early’ last night and missed his even toileting - despite me trying to wake home to go). After he’d been he wanted to play. I was trying to get him to calm down and go back to sleep and he started getting quite bitey. We ended up being up for an hour before I could get him back to sleep. I have a fold away bed I’m sleeping on in the dining room though and he is always really excited by it (he wants to destroy it because it looks like fun) so maybe be that was part of the problem on this occasion.

I try walking away but he tends to follow me! He has a play pen which he likes going into but I’ve never shut the door before. I might try that. He seems to likes his crate but I can’t imagine being able to put him in during a bitey moment.

Thanks again.

Yeah it's tough @AmigoDog. I can't say for sure that any one thing I'm doing is working to stop it! Agree with lots of sleep. OwlPup has lots of enforced naps and is noticeably more manic and bitey when tired. Turning my back doesn't work for biting, he just gets bitier to try and get my attention back. Yelping doesn't work, excites him more. Redirecting with a toy and playing tug with him for a few minutes is probably the most effective thing here but only works if you have a toy to hand. I pop him in his crate for about 30 seconds if I can't redirect him. I'm not it helps reduce the biting in the long term but it lets him calm down a bit. I'm trying to be all zen about it and accept it's just a waiting game...

Thanks BiteyShark. We don’t have a baby gate yet but I will get one today. His playpen has a bed in it so I’ll try putting him in there until I can properly remove myself.

How bitey is he now biteyshark?

Thanks owl. How old is owl pup?

AmigoDog BiteyDog is 4 this year so a nice laid back adult dog. He was terrible as a puppy and we nicknamed him
Cockerdiles on account of the snapping and he is a cocker spaniel. Now he is so gentle he will suck treats out of my hands rather than go anywhere near me with his teeth.

It really does feel like you will end up with an aggressive dog when they are at their worst. I had holes and marks all over my clothes. But it does calm down but certainly up to the age of 5 months it was hell.

Generally most people try the following for biting.

Yelping
Redirection onto toys
Turning back and folding arms
Timeouts

Yelling made mine hyper and worse. Redirection didn't work as he wasn't interested in toys to chew as he wanted me.
Turning my back only worked a bit but then he would go for my leg.
Timeouts did the trick.

It's a bit of an experiment to find which one works for you and your dog.

On the baby gate, they are bloody brilliant (I am childfree). We still use ours as a safe place when anyone comes to the door. He now barks and runs behind the baby gate when the door goes

@GingerAndTheBiscuits I've got everything crossed for you. I am having some signs of success with the yelp and turn back. It's time consuming and tiring and everyone has to be consistent. We also stopped all rough play. I do think it must be massively stressful for you to have to deal with both the dog and your family. I hope it all works out.
@AmigoDog What a beautiful dog! I think most people have the same problem with puppies biting. Mine breaks the skin consistently - not out of malice. I have watched so many YouTube videos and also read articles and Facebook group advice but the only thing that I am seeing progress with is Victoria Sitwell's method where you yelp like a puppy and stop playing by turning your back. By the end of the evening, I could wave my hand in front of him and he left it. I think it takes weeks though and everyone has to do it. My DS17 and DS15 are both lazy and 'feel sorry' for the puppy but I have really put my foot down and reminded them that if he bites a child when he's older he will most likely be PTS.
Also, we stopped all rough play and anything that makes the puppy go crazy like chasing etc.
Good luck - the biting really is terrible !

@AmigoDog. It does get better, it’s much harder to deal with when you are knackered too.

Time out worked best for us. We’d step outside a door a close it just 10 seconds or so to reset her.

I read that putting her in a crate or playpen etc just takes too long and they don’t make the connection with play stopping, even just a couple of seconds too long. But you getting up and closing the door is quicker.

Thank you everyone. I’m feeling quite reassured that it’s just an age thing now (even though there’s a long road ahead of us).
I’ll try and get a baby gate today. We don’t have many doors downstairs so it might have to be the pen for now.
I’ll also have a look at Victoria Sitwell. Thanks. And yes good point about consistency. I have the most interaction with pup but I’ll make sure DH does the same. Dd is 7 and is never alone with him.

Out of interest which YouTube trainers do people rate? There is so much in there!

OwlPup is 15 weeks today @AmigoDog. The biting has reduced somewhat for us already. Although I'm not complacent...I expect it to ramp up a bit again when teething kicks in..?

Agree re time out not necessarily helping stop the biting. (I missed a word out of my last post but that's what I was trying to say as well). It can turn into a bit of a grapple picking up 10kg bitey wriggly pup and by the time he's in the crate he'll not link it at all to the bite. But it gives him chance to calm down if he was getting a bit frantic and gives me a moment's peace as well.

I've put a lead on OwlPup this morning because I'm trying to tackle his jumpy and bitey behaviour around DS. I already wish I'd done it sooner. It is much easier stopping/redirecting unwanted behaviour with the lead on than without. So if you're thinking of putting in pen when biting and want to make it a quicker action or stop pup jumping up at you, then a house line would be helpful, I think.

YouTube videos I've watched are Simpawtico, Zak George, Kikopup and McCann. Zak George has a good series where he follows training his puppy from 8 weeks. Good to see an actual puppy with actual puppy behaviour rather than an already well trained dog playing the part of puppy!

@Amigodog We have also tried lots of different things with the biting and on the whole now that Muckypup is 18 weeks he is slightly better, though when he does bite now he really bloody hurts. He's a Golden Retriever so a huge puppy now. He sometimes does that determined biting trying to get you wherever he can, and if he doesn't respond to 'sit' and comes back to do it again, we have just started calmly putting him the crate for a few minutes and as it's close by where we sit in the kitchen, he seems to understand that. He will whine and bark but is starting to learn that if he just waits it out with no fuss, he is soon out. He usually then takes himself off to the garden for a bit of a sulk.

If it's just me with him, I walk away and go into another room, but in the end that gets annoying and honestly you can't always safely leave a room when you are in the middle of something. To be honest I'm disappointed that the crate is now used for time out and not snuggly bedtimes, but it's been invaluable anyway. He has his bed elsewhere now in a corner which he settles on really well.

@OliveButler we also found it helped to not play certain games with pup as they just were too exciting for him - so the first two minutes are fine, but then he just gets too overwhelmed. My favourite messy game for pup is to give him a cardboard box to destroy as it wears him out and he can get as bitey as he wants with it. I usually put some boxes or paper inside the box and some little treats to find, but generally he just happily destroys the box and it takes a while.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits I really hope you get through this okay. I can totally see why you are looking at the rehome place though. My dh is away this week and things are so much calmer as me and ds agree what needs to be done with pup and just do it. I think pup senses the lack of stress in the atmosphere as well, which helps!

Youtube videos I've watched are the same as you, @OwlInAnOakTree. I like Simpawtico's style and attitude towards pups and I've learned just to say a command once from him, I like Kikopup but can't do the clicker business which seems integral to what she does, Zac George annoys me with all the adverts and his 'peppy' style but he is honestly really good at putting things across and gives lots of real examples. McCann are a little harsher in style than the others (their biting video!) but they have some great tips. Of all of them I come back to Simpawtico and try and think 'What would Simpawtico guy say to pup now?' which helps me keep my temper and keep consistent.

@muckandnettles agree completely with your assessment of those trainers! I really want Simpawtico guy to come and live with me until pup is completely trained.

I've paid for an Absolute Dogs download. They're game based and I've learnt a few good games from them which, in theory, then make everything else easier. Need to get back to that. I find I've slipped a bit on the training front recently. I probably spend more time watching/reading about training than actually doing training!

Thanks again.
Yes owl I agree. I’d like to keep the crate punishment/Timeout free. It’s separate to our pen though so maybe that will work.

I watched a McCann video yesterday. The dog was very well behaved! I’ll try zac George. I think simpawtico is one you were all talking about on the first thread and I couldn’t remember the name. Will check that out too.