Puppy survival thread! July 2020

[Juiceey]

Roll up roll up... I'm a day late but here we are.

Latest update: Juiceypup is obsessed with DS's feet, who is now starting to get upset by it. He doesn't do it to anyone else, only him, and we don't know why. DS goes stock still as instructed but we have to prise his mouth open to get him off his toe. Has brought him to tears a few times.

We took DPup to a friends for dinner last night. She was an angel for the first 1.5hrs then got manic and bitey, probably overtired, so we made a hasty exit. We did manage to eat our meal and our friends are dog people too so understood. It did feel good to do something normal and not puppy centric!
Hope DS is OK today @OwlInAnOakTree

I think DH is set against the dog staying for lots of complicated reasons. So now having to think about making a decision that balances his well-being, the kids’ wishes and my sanity. Aargh.

@Juiceey dog daycare is £40 per day here

[quote m0therofdragons]@Juiceey dog daycare is £40 per day here [/quote]
Holy crap!

Bloody hell @m0therofdragons I've definitely got away lightly at £20 a day then! I'll tell DH to stop him moaning.

Our daycare is quite reasonable, £35 a day and that includes drop off and pick up. We’re centralisg London as well. Next door sometimes use them so I know they’re not rubbish etc.

You do get a small discount if you do 4/5 days a week. Link is going to go for some halfdays next week to see how he does.

That's really difficult Ginger. What are your options?

@marmite51

That's really difficult Ginger. What are your options?

Keep her but accept that the work is all on me to preserve his mental health (possibly at the expense of mine!). Or send her back and deal with the fallout from the kids. Or hope she starts sleeping on her own at night soon and we all get some proper rest.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits that sounds really difficult. I know that in my family, we all underestimated the work involved and we thought we were experienced with dogs! I slept on the sofa for over 2 weeks and was on a really short fuse as a result and much less able to cope with an energetic puppy. In the end I just went to bed and came down when he cried. I do this every night now. It makes no difference to the number of accidents whether I am downstairs or upstairs.
So now Oliverpup turns his nose up at Butternut just as I've stuffed my freezer with it. I gave him toast this morning after he just sniffed at the bowl. I've ordered the Wolfworthy (I think that's what it's called) and after he refuses that, I'll end up making my own.
Biting is escalating. Training is regressing. He has hidden pig ears all around my house. I have bought clickers and books. I'll bloody crack it if it kills me.
Hope everyone has a good day. @OwlInAnOakTree hope your DS is ok. He'll have to get some rest. My DS broke and dislocated a finger at the weekend and got gas and air to reset it. Pup goes for his finger a lot so be careful.

@OliveButler we’re on week 3 of sofa sleeping apparently separation anxiety shouldn’t manifest until they’re 9 months plus so I’m at a bit of a loss to explain her continued panic at being away from us given we have never left her alone in the house or given any indication we won’t return. But we can’t stay like that forever with a 5 and 9 year old. The summer holidays just look miserable for them as we’re stuck being at home (because she also detests the car - is sick or poos) other than the odd days I can send them off with someone else to have some fun. No family days out, even with dog in tow. Sorry for being an unrelenting misery. We just don’t seem to be having many “aww, what a lovely puppy” moments as the rest of you!

Hope all the injured little people are okay too - not what you need when trying to dodge a land shark!

You’re not being miserable, you’re being honest. I was a mardy bastard for the first two weeks.

What does she do if you do leave her in a room on her own?

Ginger sorry if I have missed it but have you had a 1-1 trainer in for help?

I never subscribed to the 'never let them cry' or never leave them alone book. I know it works for some but I did the baby gate and ignored the attention whimpering and flitted in and out lots. I never slept next to him but went in at night and did the take to toilet, no play, no speaking, then back in the crate. Sometimes you just have to balance the puppies needs with your own. I am not advocating abuse or neglect but sometimes they just can't have all your attention whenever they demand it.

I also did a lot of reading of research (not people's opinions) on SA and found that it tended to be breed specific and manifested by things like moving house. I also found a very interesting article from a behaviourist that was called in for SA and they found that each case wasn't and they were able to identify what the problem was and work with them to correct it. What I am trying to say is SA is bloody awful and I would hate to manage a dog with it but I do think dog owners are scared by everyone mentioning SA if the dog cries as a puppy.

I would really get someone you trust to come and help you navigate this 1-1 especially if it has got so bad you are thinking of returning her.

I never subscribed to the 'never let them cry' or never leave them alone book. I know it works for some but I did the baby gate and ignored the attention whimpering and flitted in and out lots. I never slept next to him but went in at night and did the take to toilet, no play, no speaking, then back in the crate. Sometimes you just have to balance the puppies needs with your own. I am not advocating abuse or neglect but sometimes they just can't have all your attention whenever they demand it.

This is a bit like me as well, I did sleep on the sofa for a few nights but I still essentially ignored Link. He has a little pen around his crate, we also make a point of ignoring him when he is in his pen during the day. I did feel like a bit of a monster at first, but it has worked and four weeks in he is a good sleeper most of the time.

We have been working with a trainer since day 4 or so. She’s coming out again today. Crate is a write off - she is terrified of it - a sweating, panting, digging, biting, frantic mess. We have been attempting consistent crate training since day 1 and she is no closer to settling in there despite all meals and plenty of treats in there.

We have also tried bed training. She will stay in it as long as I am lobbing treats in her direction but the second it stops, she’s up and out.

If left she claws and claws at the door and yelps similar to when she is in a crate. We are doing the flitting game and she will occasionally take herself back off to the living room. But not consistently. On the advice of the trainer we try to keep the day times very dull with little interaction so she learns daytime is downtime and evenings are for training and play. The aim being that she generalises that separation in the day to separation at night. But I have to say progress seems painfully slow and with both kids at home through the summer the idea of daytime = downtime will go out the window (though they both tend to hang out in a room away from her).

I tried getting up and leaving the room one night this week when she was asleep but she was immediately up after me and to be honest the thought that she’d be alert enough to be awake for another couple of hours filled me with dread so I just went back to the sofa!

She is older than most pups here (almost 23 weeks) so we are not in the same socialisation window as the littlest pups.

Two things come to mind Ginger.

Trainers have very different views so if this one isn't working for you don't hesitate to find one that does. I tried a few in the early days and when we found one that owned and understood spaniels the difference was night and day.

The other thing is that when my puppy cried or scratched to he let out of crate or baby gate I could really feel my anxiety hit the roof and all I wanted to do was run back to stop it. It takes a lot to turn your back when they can still see you and ignore the behaviour until it stops. For example my DH would run and stop the pup from eating stones. I turned my back and didn't look and he never does it with me because I don't reward him. BUT the impulse to stop that was really really strong to resist. Same with leaving him behind the gate or in the crate.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

She is older than most pups here (almost 23 weeks) so we are not in the same socialisation window as the littlest pups.

Then I would be a thinking about a new trainer or behaviourist and be honest from the start that you need to get a handle on this at the risk of returning the dog.

Sometimes you need to press the fact that this is a big deal for your family and need to see a clear way forward.

The trainer is fine really - her advice is consistent with most of what I’ve read online, and she has good experience with rescues and is appropriately affiliated with national organisations etc. We’re in touch with the adopters of her siblings and they are experiencing very similar issues, so may well be a breed or litter issue (though we don’t know exactly what breed she is!). Which doesn’t necessarily make me feel any better! I do think she would probably benefit from having another, older, dog around to help her settle into living in a house for the first time, but we are not in a position to adopt a second dog.

I think we just hadn’t anticipated how long the settling in period would be, and the toll it would take on us all, as inexperienced dog owners. And there is precious little reward in it. I read people talking about how much they love their dogs and just think when will that kick in?!

I think we just hadn’t anticipated how long the settling in period would be, and the toll it would take on us all, as inexperienced dog owners. And there is precious little reward in it. I read people talking about how much they love their dogs and just think when will that kick in?!

The love kicked in about 6 months of age for DH but he wasn't battling with the teenager from hell.

For me personally I would say I really fell in love with him much later than that. When he started to show his adult personality and not that of a stroppy teenager. I would jump in a river not recommended obviously to save the stupid idiot now but the reward of a dog was a long time coming.

The sad thing is that BiteyDog whilst worshiped and spoilt because we love him so much will be an only dog because there is no way I can mentally go through the first year or dog ownership again.

Don’t get me wrong, there are some nice bits - I enjoy walking her and doing bits of training, and her waggy bum when DH comes home from work. She’s a really good dog in lots of ways - being handled, walking on the lead, interaction with most other dogs, eats well, house trained with no fuss. We have a lot to be thankful for!

@GingerAndTheBiscuits so sorry this is happening to you and the pup - it's so hard for you all. We also seriously underestimated this whole thing as well.

“ The sad thing is that BiteyDog whilst worshiped and spoilt because we love him so much will be an only dog because there is no way I can mentally go through the first year or dog ownership again.”

Ha! Yes, we are very wary of ever doing this again, whatever the outcome is.

We have a plan for the summer (bar any major catastrophes) in terms of child and dogcare. Maybe if we make it September we’ll be able to see a way forward.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Don’t get me wrong, there are some nice bits - I enjoy walking her and doing bits of training, and her waggy bum when DH comes home from work. She’s a really good dog in lots of ways - being handled, walking on the lead, interaction with most other dogs, eats well, house trained with no fuss. We have a lot to be thankful for!

Totally get it. It's why I still lurk on the puppy threads because sometimes it just seems that everyone else is managing their bitey bundle of fur when you are sitting there thinking WTF have I bought.

Thanks for letting me moan. Fairly sure most people IRL are fed up of me wibbling about the dog!