To neuter or not to neuter? That is the question.

[DICarter1]

Our wee boy is a small poodle. He’s nearly 16 months and we are wondering whether or not to get him neutered. Our vet suggested quite a few months back to get him done.

I am not 'slagging' anyone off and I apologise if my views are seen that way.

There are at least two threads on here recently where accidental litters have happened. Where I am it does happen in my area. I notice the same people who promote responsible breeding (which is great) and are less than pleasant in views when this happens are anti neutering. I agree waiting for the dog to fully mature is sensible as you don't want to affect bone or joint growth etc, but if it's just a pet, not for showing or breeding, I don't understand taking the risk. Taking the steps to ensure dogs don't escape is good, not everyone is as risk averse and accidents DO happen with dogs that aren't health tested and have less than great temperaments.

@Vet - it's irrelevant what breed your dog is. Actually the fact that they're wolfhounds would make them harder to home if they ended up in the pound but you have plainly chosen to over look that while you are being facetious. One more dog in the pound is too many which is the point, regardless of its breed and accidents happens as previous threads on here have proved that.

I can guarantee we won’t have an “accident”. Only irresponsible people allow dogs to have unwanted litters. You can actually stop puppies happening even if there is an accident.
I’m guessing you’re not in the U.K. from your language @johnwayneisbigleggy. The situation isn’t the same in every country.
And no. I won’t be neutering if I can avoid it. Because osteosarcoma is a bloody awful disease and I don’t want my dog to die of it. If I can reduce the risk then I will.
Big girl is in season now. She can go in the secure garden. We walk at weird hours of the day in areas well away from any loose dogs. She can’t get out the house and neither can any dogs get in. I’m happy I have this covered.
NO puppies here. I have neither the time, skill or expertise to do a good job of breeding and raising puppies. And whilst my dog is lovely, that doesn’t make her a candidate to breed from. I wanted a puppy. I bought one.
Yep. Two unspayed females.
No puppies.
And @Veterinari I don’t mind being banned and not balanced!
It’s not a simple decision.
Unlike my cats. Those tarts are spayed!

Yes I'm from the UK, and I'm someone who deals with picking up the pieces of dogs in rescue - accidental litters of 'we'll never have accident'. There are many, many kill pounds across the u.k full of pups and unwanted dogs of every size and shape. Sadly some people never learn.

So many wolfhounds. So many unwanted wolfhound puppies.
I’m sorry you deal with idiots and “accidents”. I’m not.

You beat me to it, Wolfie - because I was out walking the dogs.

It's perfectly sensible to delay neutering a dog to either avoid health issues or to let it fully mature, provided you control it properly.

It's true that too many dogs are PTS in the UK for the lack of a home (I think it's about 10k a year) but equally, as a country we import dogs by the thousand - not just Romanian rescues, but huge numbers of puppies from shitty starts in puppy farms in central Europe and Ireland.

I'd rather buy a puppy from an oops litter lovingly reared in someone's kitchen than a puppy bred in some fuck-awful filthy windowless barn somewhere, but that's a different discussion.

I waited two years for my first pup @GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman because actually there aren’t many wolfhound pups about. Sure I could buy one off an online ad but we all know the crap start it would have and the hell I would be forcing the parent dogs to live. So I waited.
You don’t want an “oops” wolfhound. You really don’t. For health and temperament reasons and because you need the support and advice of the breeder to raise a healthy dog.
Not enough is being done to sort out those who just want to make cash from their animals.

And john, responsible dog owners with intact animals are not the enemy, even though you treat us like idiots.

I know many, many intact dogs. Owned by sensible people, so no accidental litters.

Wolfie, I wasn't referring to oops pedigree litters, and I completely agree that it's better to have a dog that is responsibly bred. My personal scale goes responsibly purpose-bred, then oops, then some poor little sod smuggled into the country in the back of a van. I wasn't saying that oops is ideal, just that it doesn't have to be the end of the world if the owners step up, look after the bitch and pups properly and find the pups good homes.

Otherwise it can be a shit-show.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman - treat you like an idiot? Go and look at the dogs in the pounds across the Uk, see what the pound pullers deal with on a daily basis, what goes on with unwanted puppies - fighting dogs, bait dogs sold for £50 and then see why I'm so passionate about it before you tell me I'm treating you like I'm idiot. That's where a lot of unwanted litters end up. Plainly you have intact dogs too 🙄

John, I can understand why it upsets you. It upsets me too. That's why I donate to the Dog's Trust.

But you risk alienating people like me who have an intact dog. You ARE treating me like an idiot, because if she is ever mated by a random male, she'll be straight to the vet for the injection, whatever the cost. I might breed her on purpose, provided she pans out well in the next year or so, but if she doesn't, she'll be spayed to prevent pyo and reduce the random mating risk from very low to zero.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who work in animal rescue, but if you persist in lumping me in with people who let their in-season bitch roam the streets and then go, 'oh, dunno how she got pregnant!' and ditch the pups at Blue Cross, that sympathy will run dry pretty quickly.

I can try and see things from your perspective. You might try and see them from mine.

@johnwayneisbigleggy you’re taking your anger out at the wrong people.

You’re preaching to the choir about the numbers of unnecessary litters at rescues and irresponsible owners. Honestly, we’re on your side.

But you’ve gone so far one way with your thinking that you can’t see any other reasoning. Pull back a bit and look around you. Look properly and you’ll mostly see responsible dog owners here. We are not the enemy.

The things that really want stopping are the puppy farms in U.K. & the importing of puppies from God knows where raised in terrible conditions. I’m sure there would be far far less unwanted dogs in rescue if these were stopped. There’s too much money being made by these sort of unscrupulous trades producing poor little dogs with numerous health issues.
I really, really, really wish all potential owners would be more careful of how they source a puppy & go via the breed clubs. I can see how many are tempted by appealing puppy pictures online of ones available instantly for what seems like a cheaper price but I wish they would really understand the trouble & heartache that is a real risk of lying in store.

I do breed, not a lot, as I show one of the very rarest vulnerable native breeds that is in real danger of becoming extinct in this country, but only when I plan to keep one of the puppies. I’ve been told it’s harder than applying to become a member of MI5 to get through my vetting & go on my waiting list & I always, always stipulate that each one should be returned to me & not go into rescue should circumstances change.
Sorry, I know this should be another subject but I want responsible owners of the rarer breeds to be able to show & promote them, impossible if they neuter by choice.

just neuter him. Noone wants to see your dog humping things or trying to shag other dogs.
If youre not allowing him free reign to go lead a natural life which includes sex, then you are kinder to neuter otherwise its a life of frustration. It calms them down and makes them better pets

@Branleuse humping isn’t often a sexual behaviour. Neutering won’t automatically stop it. Neither will it necessarily calm a dog down.

I don’t plan to neuter my dog. He’s 18 months now. Never had problem with him running off. And no he’s not in the least bit aggressive towards other dogs. He’s submissive. Does mark a lot on walks, loves a good sniff of where other dogs have been. Did go through a stage of humping some dogs but that has passed with training and maturity. As long as you are responsible with him I.e secure fenced garden etc then he is likely to be fine left entire.

Can I just advise you to ask this sort of question on a specific dog forum as opposed to just mumsnet. You will get some very good balanced views with plenty of supporting evidence links. Gone are the days of the ‘just neuter him, It’ll make him calmer attitude.

@wolfiefan not always but often. Its the first suggestion for curbing these things though, but obviously it doesnt always work as some dogs are just neurotic or obsessive anyway, but definitely reducing their testosterone via castrating calms a lot of dogs. Thats without the benefits of reducing accidental pregnancies

Most dogs I can’t met who need “calming” are immature or untrained TBH. It’s not a behavioural fix.

@Asdf12345 I can’t reply to you eloquently enough but you sound awful on so many levels.

I see a lot of dogs (trainer) and people always think castration is a cure-all. It just isn’t and can make behaviours worse particularly in cases where a dog is reacting to other dogs due to actually being scared. People rarely listen though.

Unfortunately vets are often woefully ignorant about behaviour/training so will still plug the “Off With His Nuts” approach.

I had my miniature poodle castrated at 9 months. My vet is very strongly for neutering unless on the timid side or very large breeds and suggested it at 6 months for ddog. I debated it for a long time even before we got ddog as I know other very well trained and healthy dogs who are entire.

What swayed it for me was him going after a bitch in heat in our usual walking route, his recall went out of the window and it was almost as if he didn’t know who I was, as if he was possessed. He was humpy, but only at home with his bed.
He had also started scent marking in the house.

I can safely say this has stopped and he’s much less fussed around other dogs too. Prior to castration he was a bit of a pest and didn’t really read other dogs body language v well- obviously this could also be age related but no negative effects of castration for us.
Dog theft was also a consideration but I’m not sure dog thieves actually check for balls

Unfortunately vets are often woefully ignorant about behaviour/training so will still plug the “Off With His Nuts” approach

I do think many vets are changing this view. More and more, these days, I speak to vets who have a more balanced approach to neutering/spaying. I think it's gone hand in hand with a change of aproach generally from "do what I say" to "let's talk about what we think is best for this dog".

We have three males, two were neutered around 9 months. The third who has not been neutered came to us as a rescue last summer age 7. He appears aggressive (lots of barking) to entire males but submissive to just about everyone and everything else. He is very nervous and clingy and the vet said there was no advantage to having him done at this stage. The vet also said he has the mellowest attitude he has ever seen in an adult male!

If we had had had him younger we would have taken the vet's advice on neutering especially considering his nervousness. If we had had him as a youngster he would have had more training and discipline and I doubt the attitude towards other dogs would have been such an issue. But he is well managed and although in the middle in terms of age and size is definitely bottom of the pack with the other two dogs .

My default position is always going to be "neuter!" but I think probably in the case of our rescue it would not have been helpful.

I used to be very pro neuter at all costs and have usually had rescue dogs which are neutered before they go to a new home.

I got my (non rescue) spaniel pup three years ago. He is hugely well trained (CGC Gold level), well balanced and happy. I am not getting him castrated. I have discussed this at length with my vet who feels that it is the right choice since castration can put him at higher risk of other cancers although it would eliminate testicular cancer risk obvs. She also feels that on balance non castrated dogs are healthier in general.

Dogs with owners who are not responsible will definitely be better being castrated due to the risk of them impregnating bitches if they are allowed to roam. My dog will stay as he is.

I am not in a position to speak about bitches as the only bitch we have was spayed when we got her. Wolfie seems to be speaking sense to me however.