To neuter or not to neuter? That is the question.

[DICarter1]

Our wee boy is a small poodle. He’s nearly 16 months and we are wondering whether or not to get him neutered. Our vet suggested quite a few months back to get him done.

@VanillaGodzilla not sure if you've read it, but your info re the US neutering policy is similar to a section of Our Dogs, Ourselves by Alexandra Horowitz. It's really interesting and made me really question some of my own assumptions about why we neuter.

I too would not automatically neuter/spay without first considering the dog.

OP neutering question aside- please please please fix your dog’s recall problem. It’s probably the most important thing you can teach your dog. It can be the difference between life and death for him, and potentially people if he were to run infront of a cyclist or a child that jumped into the road to avoid him. It’s so important.

We didn’t (small poodle). I did take him but got a bad feeling from the vet, so left without having him done. Took him to a brilliant vet and after assessing him she advised against it. She felt he tended to the nervous and would benefit from remaining entire. We’ve had two incidents where he got a bit too interested in another dog but was easily called back. He’s now 4. We have no issues with humping, aggression etc at all.

@Stellaris22 I’m not spaying unless it’s medically necessary. I don’t want to put my giant breed at even more risk than she is of bone cancer.
I only have bitches. I only ever walk on lead and well away from off lead dogs when they’re in season and I hire a securely fenced field if they need a run.
They won’t get pregnant accidentally. No puppies in rescue centres from us.
But other people have different circumstances. (Fear of mammary tumours and of course pyometra.)

@Stellaris22

Breeding to get our next dog and to offset costs.

There is huge demand for good working stock at present and not the supply of puppies to match, though prices are lower than pet stock unless ftch both parents.

We've got two dogs who are both intact. No plans to neuter either as it can ruin the coat, they're large breeds and I believe it's better for them to remain intact. When Fdog is in season mdog goes to a relatives. We've not and will not have an unplanned litter. Mdog doesn't hump, has perfect recall and I see no reason to neuter.

Plenty of show and sport dogs are not neutered without accidental reproduction taking place.
Indeed. You just need to be aware of the risks and possibilities. And you need to honest about your willingness and ability to keep tabs on your dog. Most 'sport' dogs (gundogs for example) are well trained with good recall, which certainly helps.

Other than that, make sure your dog is physically and mentally mature, and read up on the pros and cons - that SkeptVet article SutterCane linked to is very helpful.

As almost all bitches are spayed your boy dog Is extremely unlikely to ever meet a bitch in season and even less chance of impregnating one.
Entire dogs from decent homes are not fathering unwanted puppies, that’s no reason to neuter.

@Wolfiefan thanks, giant breeds are a different ballgame!

@RedRed9 talk to your vet. There is a 6 month or annual ‘dose’. We did the 6 month option to begin with as I was in the middle of a gundog training course and I was worried that it would alter his personality, let me just say the retrieving instinct is indestructible haha. It is expensive though. The last one was >£200, can’t remember exactly as there was worming and other bits added to the bill but it is not a cheap option.

@perch then there is no good reason not to neuter unless you intend to make money from your dog. There are thousands of unwanted dogs in this country bred by irresponsible owners and as a result of accidents. If your dog produced a litter of 8 or 9 pups and every one of those puppies homes fell through would you be able to have them back? Could you afford to do that because I seriously doubt it so neutering you're dog is the only responsible thing to do. It's people involved in rescue who pick up the pieces when other spout shit about not neutering being healthy

Thanks @perch

@johnwayneisbigleggy I won’t neuter as I’ve already said because of specific health risks. I’m not irresponsible and won’t be putting pups in rescue. Because there won’t be any.
You’re confusing those who don’t neuter for legitimate reasons with those who CBA to neuter or take steps to avoid pg. Not the same.

While you have a dog who is entire you cannot guarantee that there will not be puppies, and therefore I standby my argument. Could you give homes to a whole litter of puppies - very few people could. I suggest you go and read up on how many dogs die in pounds across this country every week - kill pounds give 7 days before dogs are destroyed if a rescue can't give a place. You are living in cloud cuckoo land

when other spout shit about not neutering being healthy

How is it ‘spouting shit’ when there’s actual medical research into it?

Yep. Rescues must be filled to the brim with unwanted wolfhound puppies from an owner so concerned with her dog's welfare she read up all about risks of bone cancers and the impact of slaying on that risk.

That's exactly the kind of owner that contributes to the problem

Spaying - though slaying also affects the risk

An entire Male is worth more when stolen when he runs off after that enticing bitch in heat scent

www.washingtonpost.com/science/2019/10/11/growing-debate-over-spaying-neutering-dogs/?outputType=amp

Interesting article talking about some of the points here.

@JuanSheetIsPlenty, I know we need decent recall. Believe me I’m trying. Hence the long line. We started him when we got him home. Lots of work in the garden, hide and seek, a special exciting toy when he was out, special nice treats only given when out. We’ve tried sausages, cheese, ham. All of which he’d love at home. But outside he couldn’t careless. Dogs and the environment far surpass us. Mainly other dogs. He adores other dogs. Because of his lack of return on quite a few occasions he’s either on a lead or on a long line. I know it’s a problem. Suggestions very welcome.

Thanks all. A lot to think about. He’s not huge and I’ve had a look at neutering his breed and it’s very 50/50. He’s not a nervous dog, no aggressive and minimal humping.

@Stellaris22
@johnwayneisbigleggy

If neither of you can conceive of a reason not to neuter a non-breeding dog, you should probably acquaint yourselves with basic research and evidence before slagging off banned and evidence-based choices.

*balanced and evidence-based

Ignore if you’ve tried these already OP.

Instead of calling him back to you you could train a stop then a wait command. So he isn’t being taken away from what he sees but he isn’t moving away from you either. This would be a temporary measure to build up to the return command as that is the safest thing overall. But breaking it down into a stop-wait-return might be easier for him to learn/accept. Train the stop first. Once he is reliable on that train the wait. Then add them together. Then add the return command.

Also might be worth changing your return command. It’s possible he has just learned to tune out whatever word you’re using when out and about. I would pick a new word, pick the highest value treat/reward you can think of and add a clicker. Then the treat would only be used for the return command. And always let him smell it before you give him length on the line so he knows what you have. Only a successful return gets him the HVT. I would also only say the command once for each attempt to get a return. And take it in really small stages. Start in the garden again. Build up.

Sorry if I’m teaching granny to suck eggs! It’s just how I’d approach it.

@asdf12345 that was a step too far. You've over egged the pudding there and given the game away.

It isn’t black & white. There are genuine reasons against neutering in the case of some cancers in some breeds & coats can alter significantly.
Someone up thread said that many working & show dogs are not neutered. I would like to add that KC rules mean that you can not enter a dog into a show that is neutered unless you have proof that it was done for purely medical reasons. All dog breed standards state that a male dog must have two descended testicles that can be felt in the scritum so if you have any plans at all to show neutering purely from choice will disqualify you.