Buying a cockapoo

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We saw a Cockapoo yesterday. My parents are buying one from the litter too. We went along for a visit and decided to buy one too. We have been planning on getting a dog for a couple of years so not a snap judgement.

These have clearly been well socialised, born in and living in the family home . Not a puppy farm. Seen Mum and Dad and they are lovely. Toilet training coming on nicely.

The pups come wormed up to date and micro chipped. All good so far. Pups ready to come at 8 weeks old. They are lively, friendly, clean eyes, ears, noses and bottoms.

The things that are giving me second thoughts are;

No mention of PRA testing.
No mention of hip dysplasia testing.
The breeder will not have vaccinated them, says it's best to get the 1st 2nd and 2l3rd round of vaccines all done at your own vets so no issues about brand of vaccine.

Should I be worried?
Have you had all the testing/test done for your cockapoo?

Anyone experienced hip dysplasia/PRA?

Don't let anyone try and persuade you it's not necessary to have ALL the health tests required
I'm being pernickety here, but there's not a lot of point testing for FN when breeding F1 cockerpoos, as it doesn't look as if poodles carry it and it's a recessive condition.

However, in this case it's cockerpoo x cockerpoo (an F2 breeding), so in that situation I'd want to see FN testing done.

If the parents are clear of PRA by descent, there's no point testing for that either, but in this case two of the GPs weren't tested so again, not great.

OP, when considering cockers are you going for show or working lines? Very different dogs - workers are lovely, but tend have very high prey drive and need (and benefit from) a lot of training.

workers are lovely, but tend have very high prey drive and need (and benefit from) a lot of training

I prefer workers.
Of the cockers I’ve met, the workers seem to be much more ‘balanced’ dogs, lively/got stamina but not hyperactive generally speaking.
Nicer temperaments as well, met quite a few not at all nice show cockers.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman she's looking at cocker spaniel pups now. Not a cross breed

Amazed that there are so many health concerns on crossbreeds. It was always said in the vets where I worked that crossbreeds would always be healthier and not inherit diseases easily. Now Cockerpoos seem to have the worst of both worlds added together?

It was always said in the vets where I worked that crossbreeds would always be healthier and not inherit diseases easily.

This is over simplification of genetic inheritence and how hybrid vigour works. I get why it's said but it misses much of the nuance of genetics and, in doing so, sets a false expectation.

Let's take an example of a gene-based disease. It is quite possible - and easy - to breed the disease back IN to an F2 crossbreed without knowing it, if you do not do the genetic testing for appropriate both types of breed.

Mother - a poodle carries the faulty gene (a) which is common to her breed and the healthy gene (A). She passes (a) to her offspring.
Father - carries two healthy versions (AA) and passes (A).

The offpring now has a genotype of (Aa). This is not expressed because the disease requires two recessive genes (aa) to affect the dog but GENETICALLY is no healthier than the mother.

This offspring is then bred with another cross breed of the same type who also has a genotype of Aa.

The resulting offspring have a 25% chance of ending up with aa - both faulty genes that will be expressed in their phenotype. This dog is now significantly genetically and actually less healthy then the parents or grandparents.

Genetic testing should stop that. Just assuming cross breeds are healthier will not.

Now take something that is not controlled by a single gene - snout length. A very sort snouted pug is bred with a cocker and the resulting offspring just happen to get super lucky and have the genetics for a snout half the length of the cockers. Would you say they were healther because they have a longer snout than the pug? Or less healthy because they have a sorter snout than the cocker? I would consider it the latter, personally.

This cross breed is then bred with another pug/cocker cross. Again, like above we could see the re-emergence of the shorter snout genes in some dogs - leading to this generation being less physically healthy than the last.

Genetics are complex - much more so than my simple exmaples here - and so the line "cross breeds" are healthier misses a massive amount of the detail.

I obviousky dint know much about dogs... but if dogs are all tested what happens to those dogs that "fail"?

@SquashedFlyBiscuit nothing other than they just shouldn't be bred from

A responsible breeder would spay and not breed. People who are breeding purely for business would probably rehome. If someone regularly health tests all their breeding dogs, it's unlikely they would end up keeping a puppy from a litter, that failed.

Some breeders would breed anyway. And have tiers of puppies. The puppies from health tested dogs, sell for more. This dogs puppies sell for less. Not sure how much that happens though.

But people are willing to spend fortunes in unhealth tested dogs. I have 2 rescue spaniels. One looks like a cross between working and show, the other other is too young to guess. The youngest was abandonment at approx 6 weeks with 2 of her sisters and I fostered them, then kept this one. If a breeder is willing to leave 3 tiny puppies out in the cold in December I doubt the parents were health tested. Though we believe we have tracked down where they came from. No proof though.

The main difference would be that I paid an adoption fee to a rescue which is far less than the £800-£1600 that people pay for unhealth tested dogs. Not sure why people would pay that for one. I suspect people assume the more expensive, the better the breeder.

Though I would point out it's not just cross breeds. I met a colleague the other day. She got a 'pure bred show cocker', £1500. Not health tested. The poor puppy is very anxious. Looking at the breeder its dodgy as fuck. Looks like the house they visited isnt where the dogs live when people arent viewing them.

They have show cockers, mini cockapoos (toy poodle), cocakpoos (standard poodle), springadoodles. No health checking and advertising F1 as though its something incredible and makes for a more predictable in terms of benefits.

Colleague has engaged a behaviourist and reported the breeder to the council, not that they will do anything. Colleague believed that at £1500 it must be a top end breeder and health issues werent going to happen.

So you need to be careful when buying any puppy, not just crossbreeds.

Saying cross breeds are inherently healthier is a nice idea but it doesn't always work like that.

The idea is that two different breeds together won't have the same illnesses and genetic problems and therefore the pups will be healthier, but that's too simplistic and genetics don't work like that.

frosted, I agree, I prefer the working type. They are bred to be functional and not primarily for looks, so you don't get extremes of coat or ear set. But they're not for everyone: you have to prepared to reel in and control that prey drive, or you could easily end up with a dog that will not recall.

It doesn't take many generations of show ring selection to wind down the drive and energy levels, which makes a dog much easier to live with if you only want a pet.

If the breeders own both parent dogs are they both cockerpoos?
It seems to me they do for financial gain to own both.
How much are you paying for a cross breed dog?
People way over the odds just for cuteness.
Also 8 weeks is too young to leave and as so called experienced reputable breeders they should know this. Puppies are still learning so much at this age from their mother and if pulled away too early they may end up with behaviour problems later on. The ideal age for a puppy to leave is 12 weeks or at least a minimum of 10 weeks.

Loads of reputable breeders let the puppies go at 8 weeks. I think with some toy breeds the advice is to keep them longer, but with most breeds, 8 weeks is fine.

Large dog breeds are definitely ready to go at 8 weeks! It would be no benefit to them staying on longer. They need to be out socialising in the world which is impossible for a breeder to do with a whole litter of large puppies

People often quote the crossbreeds being healthier but as explained by pp isn't always the case. Conformationally can end up with problems too if its not considered when breeding & parents may also be poor examples.
My own mix has hind legs with proportions all off & knee angle too steep, luckily she's made to old age without needing an op but all her legs are knackered, shoulders & back sore from compensating.

Our hydrotherapist has treated quite a few cockerpoos/ small poodle mixes that have spinal issues, mainly see's dachshunds & frenchies who are predisposed.

Beware the poodle temperament that may emerge later.

What is wrong with poodles' temperament? @seltaeb? I have a pure bred poodle and she has a delightful temperament. Poodles are not noted for having quirks.

I took my older dog to the groomers. The groomer owns a lovely standard poodle. Was a fabulous dog. Great temperament.

Seltaeb - I think that reputation is old fashioned and based on the fact that previously people would buy poodles to look fashionably stylish (ironic really) and didn't really treat them as a dog, but treated them as a fashion accessory.

My mini poodle has a wonderful temperament.

All the male poodles and poodle crosses that I have encountered have been aggressive, fiercely territorial and jealous.

Sorry OP but you don't find poodles aesthetically pleasing but cockapoos are cute? That's utter rubbish - here's our mini poodle and I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the proverbial that if you passed us in the street you'd think he was a 'cute' cockapoo - along with 99% of other people!!

Saltaeb - well you must be very unlucky to have met so many angry male poodle and poodle crosses!

My boy is certainly neither aggressive nor territorial and it's not something usually seen with poodles. They are very much family dogs, cheerful and easy going as far as the ones I've met are concerned.

All the male poodles and poodle crosses that I have encountered have been aggressive, fiercely territorial and jealous - having grown up with poodles and owning them as an adult, I'd have to say that what you have encountered is not reflective of poodles. It is entirely reflective of poorly trained dogs, which is of course the fault of the owner, not the dog.

I wonder why you jumped to the assumption that the cross-breeds you have met that have been aggressive has been down to the poodle genetics? I have met a fair few unpleasant cockers but wouldn't for one minute assume they are typical of the breed, rather they are typical of a lack of training.

I bought a cockapoo pup under the same circumstances. He’s 15m now, high energy but a good family pet.

He looks like a poodle and his adolescence was hard work though....!

@Zooforhouse I'm 10 months into cockapoo adolescence. Please say it gets easier!

@snoopdogowner

It’s easier now! Has been for a few months!

However I already have a 2 year old and I’m 8m pregnant, let’s see how that goes 😂