Buying a cockapoo

[Iw24wImI]

We saw a Cockapoo yesterday. My parents are buying one from the litter too. We went along for a visit and decided to buy one too. We have been planning on getting a dog for a couple of years so not a snap judgement.

These have clearly been well socialised, born in and living in the family home . Not a puppy farm. Seen Mum and Dad and they are lovely. Toilet training coming on nicely.

The pups come wormed up to date and micro chipped. All good so far. Pups ready to come at 8 weeks old. They are lively, friendly, clean eyes, ears, noses and bottoms.

The things that are giving me second thoughts are;

No mention of PRA testing.
No mention of hip dysplasia testing.
The breeder will not have vaccinated them, says it's best to get the 1st 2nd and 2l3rd round of vaccines all done at your own vets so no issues about brand of vaccine.

Should I be worried?
Have you had all the testing/test done for your cockapoo?

Anyone experienced hip dysplasia/PRA?

God, puppy buyers do fall for some stories ... ‘was going to keep the pup’ (until someone offered hard cash).

The puppy that a decent breeder intends to keep is not available at any price, in my experience.

Kennel club suggests 4 litters max?

Can someone explain why three litters is problematic? Is it because the pregnancies births and nursing period take a toll on the bitch? And yes, I have no absolute proof that she has had only 3 litters of course.

I am so torn and a little bit heart broken

Op, a breeder takes a lot of time selecting the pup they are going to keep, if keeping one. They dont just keep the one that doesnt sell or sell the one they have carefully chosen, because another buyers family wants the pup.

As I said, owning mum an dad is very unusual. Its not great for the mum for a start. It's also a sign that they churn puppies out. Chances are she has other breeding dogs.

The fact that she asked barely any questions, let your kids meet and play with the puppies on a first visit is really worrying. What if your kids werent not good with the puppies?

Do your mum and dad know what they are getting into with a cockapoo?

I assume they are young and fit and can walk the dog, train etc even if it's a show cocker cross, they still having working traits.

I'm not posting for my parents but for myself.

By the by, my parents have over forty consecutive years of dog ownership under their belts, not to mention the care of their other animals from equine to feline. Their last dog was pts on Christmas day 2019. They say they are "willing to take the risk".

Thank you for all the responses. I have to have a long hard think about this and it is increasingly likely I will decline the puppy and lose my deposit for the better outcome in the long run.

Maybe I’m really being naive but I think it sounds fine..?

The parents have had their eye tests which is great and tbh, I think you’d struggle to find a crossbreed that had had any health tests at all so I’d be pleased with the PRA test.

Gosh, I am searching for a pedigree and not a single (KC, most ‘assured’ breeders) I have spoken to are doing the tests that google recommends..

Third litter and final litter for a six year old bitch sounds fine to me.
4 is the accepted maximum.

I have yet to speak to a breeder who operates a waiting list so lack of that wouldn’t bother me either.

I wouldn’t be worried in the slightest about letting kids meet and play with the puppies.

For ‘pet’ dogs from a ‘hobby’ breeder, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see both mum and dad owned.
They are breeding for pets not show so aren’t going to be looking for dogs that complement each other conformation wise - just nice friendly temperaments.

If you like the temperament of the mum and dad and have no reason to suspect that the mum isn’t the genuine mum or anything else is off I would be happy to buy that puppy.

@frostedviolets

That's what one part of my brain is thinking...

I would like to add though, and I’m not trying to be rude, but where you said you don’t like the look of poodles OP.

Two I f these are poodle and one is a cockerpoo.

Can you guess who is who?

Ha! I'd say the middle one is a poodle. I'm probably wrong. But you make a very good point. I often feel cockerpoos have a chunkier look to a poodle overall but I am willing to concede that the "chunk" may well be fluff!

What I am getting at with my last post, is that actually, if just kept in an all over trim, the two dog breeds are pretty much indistinguishable.

But I still say that for me personally, based on what you’ve written, I would be perfectly happy to buy from that breeder.

There's the list of the required and recommended health tests that should be done on the pups parents. If they aren't all done then I would walk away without looking back

Vaccinations is fine. I always request my pups aren't vaccinated as it can cause a headache when u get them home to finish the course with the same brand drug

You are right @frostedviolets. Being a persian and long haired cat owner I know very well the difference a short/long clip can make.

P.S only the first dog is a cockerpoo.
The second has had its ears and nose clipped rather than left natural.
But left unclipped, they really are indistinguishable.

I think if you don't feel right then walk away.
Not easy to do with puppies but really the best thing to do.

I was dead set on a cockerpoo until I did lots of research. Ended up with an amazing mini poodle. He's the best thing, so loving and easy to train. Fit in to our family so well. He's definitely a people dog.

Honestly, it just sounds like your average family pet breeder.. some would call them backyard breeders, but then most would call anyone breeding doodle crosses a backyard breeder. Definitely not the worst thing in the world and they may be genuinely loved family pets (puppy farmers are much worse!) but obviously are not into selective breeding - selling all the pups and not keeping one for themselves to carry on a breeding line, own both parents so the mating was most likely out of convenience and cost effectiveness rather than carefully selecting a stud to complement their bitch.

I would want to know the age of the bitch, and when she had those other 2 litters. Bred every year, or bred before 2 years old? I wouldn't want to buy a puppy from someone overbreeding their dogs. Also wouldn't touch one that hasn't at least been screened clear for PRA, eye tested or been hip scored. I'd also want von Willebrand's clear on the poodle side.

I think it's easier to find a fully health tested miniature poodle than a cockapoo! They look pretty much identical anyway if you keep them long and don't give them that continental poodle clip.

Honestly, it just sounds like your average family pet breeder.. some would call them backyard breeders, but then most would call anyone breeding doodle crosses a backyard breeder. Definitely not the worst thing in the world
Couldn’t agree with this more.

I have a cocker and I did want mine to be clear of certain genetic conditions. Mine is free from prcd-PRA and FN as the parents were genetically clear. I was keen to ensure my puppy wouldn't get those so I actively hunted for breeders that had done those tests.

Finding breeders that had those checks was hard as I was after a working line so I suspect finding them in a cross breed is even harder especially as they aren't KC pedigrees.

For hip testing I wasn't bothered tbh given the breed isn't badly affected like some other breeds and also my research on that didn't convince me about the actual benefits e.g. genetic testing is a certain but hip scores aren't. Also looking at vet articles I noticed that they treat on clinical symptoms rather than scores e.g. you can have a high score and be completely symptom free etc.

The vaccination thing isn't unusual so that wouldn't bother me.

However, you have doubts and you should listen to your instincts. I walked away from several litters and it's hard but worth it to find the right dog for you.

Where there's doubt, there is no doubt.

It's better to pass up a good breeder than to take a pup from a bad one, so erring on the side of caution is always sensible, imo.

@frostedviolets Your photos showing cockerpoo/poodles are a bit misleading as adult dogs do not look like the puppies. It is quite clear the 1st photo is the cockerpoo, the 2nd is the poodle - poodles have a different face shape which I am not keen on.

OP, MN will never tell you to buy a cockerpoo puppy so you are unlikely to get unbiased replies. However, from what you've said, I don't see any major red flags.

3rd litter - not unusual. 3 is the maximum I would allow, and 6 years is the oldest.
Having mum and dad - not unusual. For large scale breeders they would probably use stud dogs so wouldn't necessarily have dad around.
Vaccinations - not technically allowed under the licensing guidelines but not unusual as some vets will ask you to start vaccinations again
PRA- if mum and dad are clear, puppy will be.

The only thing that would concern me is them having a spare puppy to sell, but it does happen that they are going to keep one, then decide against it, or someone who reserved a puppy has to pull out.

You say the set up was nice and clean, puppies appeared healthy and socialised. All positives.
Did they show you the 'puppy contract' and aftercare information?

Your photos showing cockerpoo/poodles are a bit misleading as adult dogs do not look like the puppies
True I suppose.
It is quite clear the 1st photo is the cockerpoo, the 2nd is the poodle - poodles have a different face shape which I am not keen on
I suppose it might be clear to someone who knew the two well, breeders for example, but I don’t think I could ever tell the difference between a cockerpoo/poodle myself.
I don’t think most people could.
The poster after me posted her poodle and I wouldn’t know the difference tbh between him and a cockerpoo.
But then I’m not massively involved or interested in that particular breed.

The different face is all about the nose. The poodles people notice as poodles are usually those with shaved faces or faces cut much shorter.

I've had my mini poodle for 18 months now and only twice have people known he's a poodle, both times they were poodle owners. Everyone else thinks he's a cockerpoo. Always.

I think he looks most like a poodle at the moment (the lying down photo) because it's the shortest his nose has been (I'm sick of him coming in with a muddy face from rooting about in the garden).

Anyway. Poodles are amazing and completely underrated. That has nothing to do with the original thread though. Sorry OP.

So I would say the same thing if you had gone to look at a litter of poodles/cockers/labradors/ Caucasian shepherds....

The mother of these dogs may look like a pet but she's clearly being kept just to make money. Third and last litter? Maybe, but somehow I doubt it.

They clearly have no interest where their puppy ends up living or any intention of taking him back should things go wrong. That's entirely irresponsible.

The other possibility is that this is a front for a puppy farm.

IMO absolutely not ok to encourage this this kind of industry.

I have a cavapoo. After doing loads of research, I wouldn't go near one without the right health testing. I haven't read all of the comments, have they taken them to the vet for a check over??

If your questioning it, don't do it.

For what is worth, our cavapoo is lovely. If go cross breed any day of the week. Bit, with the right health checks 😃

Update: after much heartache I have decided to say no to the breeder and (I assume) lose my deposit.

I realised the PRA paperwork was for the paternal grandfather and maternal grandfather (both poodles). She actually had no paperwork for the maternal and paternal grandmothers (cockers).

We are going to view some kennel club assured breeder Cocker Spaniels later

Just to add onto @frostedviolets photo post with some adult pics - these are all standard poodles!

Right decision OP. Check out the photo I attached with the list of health tests both of the parents should have and be tough with yourself. Don't let anyone try and persuade you it's not necessary to have ALL the health tests required