Giving up 12 week old puppy

[Ridusofyourstupidity]

Please please be kind.

I’ve been quite honest on here about losing my last puppy suddenly to anaphylactic shock and getting our new puppy a few weeks later. Now I’m not sure I can keep her due to her behaviour. It goes beyond anything I’ve experienced. She is 12 weeks old, weighs over 14kg and can reach chest height when she jumps against me.

She is repeatedly attacking me on a near constant basis with seemingly no reason. She will be chewing on a toy, lying down and get up to lunge and jump at me and bite my stomach, legs and arms while growling if I’m standing in the room even if I haven’t moved to draw attention to myself. If I ask for a sit or similar to distract her she’ll snap at me and ignore the request, although she does know ‘Sit’, ‘Down’, ‘Touch’ and will give both paws. When I have to carry her in from the garden she’ll growl and snap at my face. She is a large breed who isn’t meant to do stairs so this is unavoidable.

I can’t enter the room without her attacking me, she’ll bite the backs of my legs or jump up at my side to bite my arm. She’ll try and mount my leg while biting me if I’m still Leaving the room does nothing, she’ll try and block me leaving and she’ll continue when I return, even if calm. Toys do nothing as she will ignore them to jump and continue biting higher. Or she’ll pull my clothing like a tug toy while growling. I’ve tried every kind of toy but she let them go, snarl and dart under them to get back to biting me.

It is either very rough play or something more but it’s unmanageable. I’m now having to leave her alone in the kitchen as I can’t be in there with her, even when calm she will without warning launch at me. I keep trying to go in but it soon becomes too much as she doesn’t stop trying to get to me to bite. 15 mins is the most I’ve lasted with her ignoring toys and being latched on to me.

She’s incredibly difficult to walk even with no distractions as she’ll still attack me and bite me while we’re walking. She refuses all treats on a walk (I’ve tried several) and will pull, be incredibly hyper, running from left to right, and lunge and bite when I stay still.

I’ve done everything we covered in the puppy classes with my last puppy with her from the day we brought her home and none of this has made any difference. She has a marker word and all other commands are the same as before so everyone is on the same page. I’m not sure I’m going to make it through until Friday when I have a private training session booked. I’m utterly miserable and defeated.

Furry thank you, I do hope we’re able to work it all out. And I’m in awe of you sticking it out despite the biting continuing.

OP if it makes you feel any better I have pictures of my girl hanging of my hair, and I have scars from her. She made me cry daily. She really was awful to me. I disliked her for a while. I used to run away from her and sit up a height away from her because she would attack me, even if I didn’t move she would attack me. It was constant for months. But you know what, it was worth it. She impacted my mental health so badly. We rescued her at 8 weeks, she had a life threatening virus, which meant there was no way I was giving up.

OP she was worth all of the tears. I love her so much and she is just so so different. If you love her, hold out. Be tough. Play rope with her and you win every single time! Fill a kong full of good stuff and play scent games with her. And even when you feel like there’s no point, keep going. It does click.

Theres keeness to get scoring done at a year (earliest) because it can pick up environmentally caused poor scores, which isn't a great result for breeding scores. Doesnt matter so much if not.

Its a good idea for the big breeds so you can adjust exercise quality and quantity to work around any poor scores.

Its prob just that photo then, if shes got a good square stand with nice straight joints.

Also. I know raw is good and I agree with it mine is on 50/50 as she can’t handle full due to stomach issues but it can provide the pup so much energy and if she isn’t able to release it then it’s going to be spent on you.

Is she getting socialised? That really helps. Dogs learn them so much more. 30 minutes playing rough and tumble with some dogs is like a 2 hour on lead walk!

Jesus. What's wrong with a nice cockerpoo or a golden retriever?!

What's wrong with these breeders?!

Seriously. If you've not owned a dog before, you need a breed that is gentle and fun. Christ. I AM a dog person and I wouldn't have gone for this one at all.

@coastalwave mine is a retriever! She was awful!

I’m waiting until she’s past two before getting her spayed and the vet agrees, so as not to affect her growth. I’m just glad I know of that rentable field for when she’s in season.

At the moment we’re sticking with the 5 mins for every month old she is rule for exercise and she’s not allowed to do stairs to protect her joints.

I have no advice but oh my gosh, she is gorgeous.

@CoastalWave
No breed is guaranteed to be calm, well behaved.
I have a Cane Corso cross I adopted, he’s amazing, he was wild when we adopted him, now he’s a lovable lump, our vet said he’s possibly the best temperament she knows albeit not the brightest 🤣🐶

coastal a cockerpoo? Like a crossbreed? Like my dog?

I realise the breeds that she is mixed with are not standard go to breeds, but through personal preference, taking into account our situation and location, we decided that she and our previous Mastiff cross were what we wanted. I don’t regret that, or her. I just want to be the best owner I can for her, even though it’s very very hard.

Tbh, I’d stop carrying her to the garden... the advice on large/giant breeds about stairs isn’t meant to stop them ever going up and down stares it’s about making sure they’re not running up and down them a lot.

Also, 14kg at 12 weeks is very light anyway, so less weight on her joints than if she was average for either of those breeds.

She is definitely smaller than she would be if she was purebred. She won’t reach more than 60-65kg full grown, though likely 50-55kg.

I’ve carried her mainly because our stairs are very steep and being a 3 story house with the garden at the bottom, I didn’t want it to be too much for her while we’re up and down toilet training.

Good, recognising your own fear/ doubts is a great first step.
Do you have "training sessions"? They will help you both to get used to each other... I found in the past, that it's not just physical exercise that a dog needs, but also mental stimulation. Keep it short and sweet for your puppy.
I find this book really helpful: 101 Dog Tricks
Book by Chalcy and Kyra Sundance. You can teach her little party tricks.... But the reason I suggest it is because it explains every step with plenty of illustrations as well as trouble shooting. And most importantly, every command has a hand signal besides the word. I think using your body and hand signals can be the key to success. Remember, your voice will always carry some emotion, a simple hand signal is just that as long as it's done in a calm manner.

As for "... breed traits and how that determines behaviour and how training can be used overcome these traits" DON'T you can't undo 100's of years of selective breeding by training traits away. You need to understand your dogs traits and work with them, trying to overcome them, will give you a confused unhappy dog.

“She won’t reach more than 60-65kg full grown, though likely 50-55kg.”

I’d expect a lot less than that tbh... that’s a low enough weight that I’d actually be questioning whether she’s the mix you’ve been told she is...

Which is totally off topic though.

She’s not got a load of weight on her joints, having her on lead for instance so she’s not running on the stairs would be enough - my last dog was a large breed with joint problems, his ortho specialists were very much of the opinion that you’ll not damage good joints or prevent damage to good ones and it’s just a case of being sensible but not OTT with what you’re doing.

You'll not prevent damage to bad ones it should say, sorry my my phone is massively playing up tonight

To be fair she weighs more than a full KC registered Saint puppy the same age belonging to a lady I was talking to, he was only 12kg at 12 weeks. It can vary so much.
I saw mum, with the puppies, and it was obvious she’d given birth to them by her body. Hope looks the double of her Dad in her face shape so I’ve no doubts about her parentage. Mum was a slightly smaller Saint but the grandmother was big, 70kg when we saw her.

I know what you mean about behaviour traits. My lab loves everyone and thinks that everyone loves him. My trainer said it’s a waste of time trying to control that, it’ll only make us both unhappy, I need to learn how to preempt his lunges at other people and remember that it’s his natural behaviour. It just makes it a bit more tricky that’s all. In every other way he’s been a dream so I can let him off.

It’s been a bad morning here. She’s really struggling with me entering the kitchen and has been very hyper on toilet trips.

I’ve phoned the vet and checked my insurance policy which covers us for 6 months worth of professional behaviourist work, so I’m waiting for the vet to get back to me with the information of someone I can be referred to. I’m still booked to see the puppy trainer on Friday just to see if there’s early information in her behaviour I’m missing which I can pass on higher up.

I’d be ringing the insurance company and checking what they cover re behaviourists , they may well not pay out for what they consider your inability to cope with normal boisterous puppy behaviour .

That’s why I’m arranging for the puppy trainer and vet to see her first so I have unbiased opinions which I will ask for in writing. Also the vet can rule out any medical issues though she’s been seen and examined twice in three weeks so I’m confident it’s not that.

OP, I have no new advice for you but just wanted to give you a hand hold. You very clearly have your Pup's best interest at heart and I really hope everything works out. Keep holding on till Friday.

At the end of the day because I did the first set of puppy classes with my first puppy all the information was fresh in my mind so I started it earlier with her than I did my boy. She has progressed with impulse control (when she is calm)and obedience. Less so with heelwork and recall but still it’s something she’s familiar with. It still may be ‘normal’ puppy behaviour but I can only gain more insight to benefit her by involving a behaviourist even if I have to pay for it.

I agree that it sounds normal - puppies are bitey, hyper and frustrating as anything for the first few months - it's hard hard work raising a puppy, especially a giant breed one who is naturally going to be stronger and harder to control.

I hope you get some help

She’s beautiful.
I don’t know anything about Saint Bernards but we’ve owned Spanish Mastiffs.
They are lovely dogs but are very strong willed and stubborn so they need lots of training and socialisation.
We invested the time in ours when they were puppies and the result was chilled, socialised beautifully behaved adults which is essential due to their size and power.

With our first mastiff I do remember during the first six months thinking what have we done - she was so different to the other large breeds we’d owned previously.
But the final result was worth the time and effort.

The puppy trainer has said it’s beyond her expertise when I explained the behaviour, though she’s happy to help in any way she can.

In all honestly, I really don’t think it is normal, the level that she goes to. The trainer was particularly concerned about the fact that she will be calm and occupied and suddenly launch at my stomach to bite. There will be a reason but I can’t see it, it’ll happen if I don’t move, or make a sound.

It may be normal but regardless of that her overall behaviour does suggest that she is struggling with calmness. Apparently an indication of this is her refusal to take treats when out of the house. Either way it needs more help than I have knowledge to give.