Friend buying a puppy-Please help me get perspective

[rumred]

Hello all I'm looking for some advice on how to deal with a friend buying another puppy. It's really upset me. She rang to tell me, she 'knew I'd disapprove'.
It's an ethical issue for me, knowing so many animals are in shelters and that people breed for money/greed
She bought a puppy a few years ago and said they'd get a rescue dog once she'd settled. Her partner is pretty unpleasant and certainly wouldn't consider the impact of his actions on anything.
I suppose I'm disappointed and sad that she knows the issues and still does it. She told me the breeder loves the dogs and that's why he does it. Funnily enough he's not giving them away.
I try hard to be a good person in the world and the climate stuff at the moment comes as no surprise. Buying animals seems really selfish and unkind to me, like wasting resources and profiting from others' suffering.
I may well be coming across as a tosser, maybe I am. I just feel so sad. Not helped I'm sure by other issues like her moving 8 hours away from friends and family to give her boyfriend a fresh start.
I'm not sure I've explained properly but would appreciate other views

It is tragic just how many dogs are in rescues but the fault does not lie with someone who breeds dogs ethically and chooses good homes for them, or with someone who buys a puppy understanding it is a commitment for the life of the dog.

They are not the ones at fault.

If everyone who bought a puppy did so after consideration and did their upmost to keep that dog with them throughout it's life (always there will be exceptional cases) then rescues would be empty.

I think you're targetting your friend because she is in front of you. But she is not repsonsible for all those poor dogs in rescues. Only their breeders/owners are.

...All that is assuming she really is sourcing a puppy from a good breeder and will look after it until the end of it's life. If not - target away :)

Like you, I would only get a dog from a rescue, but I do understand the argument of wanting to know the dog's history.

I think your comment about not giving them away isn't quite fair - for two reasons. Firstly no one should give dogs away - even rescues. That would open them up to people using them for awful reasons (dog fighting, etc). Secondly, it's really expensive breeding - vet bills are huge. I think it is quite good that dogs are expensive actually - if you can't afford the initial costs you won't be able to pay for vets bills etc.

Having said all that I wouldn't personally use a breeder because I cant' bear to think of them all in rescues.

We bought a puppy because there is a risk that a rescue dog isn't suitable for family life, and most rescues want to impose the most ridiculous set of rules.
Shoot me.

If she's made up her mind there's probably little you can do other than defriend her

As pps have said, most dogs are in rescue because hapless idiots bought them and then disposed when the going got tough.

If she buys a poorly bred pup she can be buying into many more health and psychological problems than she could ever get by rescuing from a good rescue.

It's the culture of ' this is the pup I want and I want it this weekend' that fuels puppy farming, but I've come to the conclusion that most people really don't care.

I think you are judging your friend by your own standards. Your friend may judge you on some issues that you think are perfectly ok. Think hard about why your views are right and theirs are not?

I try hard to be a good person in the world and the climate stuff at the moment comes as no surprise. Buying animals seems really selfish and unkind to me, like wasting resources and profiting from others' suffering.
I bought a puppy but have no children. Shall I go round telling my friends with children that they are wrong to have them due to climate change and should not have anymore?

I may well be coming across as a tosser, maybe I am. Yes I think you are and be careful that you don't lost your friend or maybe surround yourself with only people that think exactly the same as you (which I think is a bad idea in general).

A friend at work purchased a cockerpoo on Friday - from a post on gumtree, I asked if she saw the mum etc and she said it was a bit wierd, they shut the other puppies away and she just saw the one she purchased....today shes had to get an emergency vet appointment because its struggling to breath.

I just hope shes okay

You are being unfair on her. You may have these views, but she doesn’t. What about all the other people you must pass walking a dog -do you reprimand them as well? You need to learn to respect her choices.

It is tragic just how many dogs are in rescues but the fault does not lie with someone who breeds dogs ethically and chooses good homes for them, or with someone who buys a puppy understanding it is a commitment for the life of the dog.

I agree with this.

Why is it the responsibility of me or others to take a rescue dog on because someone else was irresponsible (caveat that there are some genuine reasons to rehome).?

There are new rules and regulations in place now with regards to breeding and selling dogs. Obviously you'll still get puppy farms but if she's responsible and buys from a reputable breeder, I don't see the issue.

I bought my dog from a breeder who has 20+. She shows dogs. Mine had qualified for Crufts but was too nervous to show.
He's the most fabulous, beautiful thing. But he was loved by her. We've had him two years and we still keep in touch with her. She loves to know how he is, gives advice if he has health problems etc.

Yes we paid a pretty penny, but it's not cheap to breed dogs if you do it properly.

I can't help you get perspective. I judge every.single.time. We have a rescue. I would never have got a puppy for all the reasons you have mentioned and the fact that I'm inherently lazy and couldn't be arsed with a puppy.

In my opinion, you're not wrong. I just bite my tongue with the myriad school families who have brought puppies that they know nothing about, can't control and aren't training properly.

I am very different from a lot of my friends, they have different values and do things differently. It doesn't mean we can't get on.

Think it in your head, bitch about it at home with your DH or significant or trusted other in your life and just get on with it.

Why is it the responsibility of me or others to take a rescue dog on because someone else was irresponsible (caveat that there are some genuine reasons to rehome).?

Why is the responsibility of this generation to deal with the climate change crap because of the irresponsibility of previous generations? Why is it my responsibility to give to charity because the government won't or can't fund everything? Why is it my responsibility to pick up litter when some other scrote has dropped it? Why is my responsibility to be a good citizen when others aren't? Because that is what reasonable human beings do.

Get a grip, OP.

Talk about virtue signalling.

@Alsohuman - virtue signalling seems to be a real buzz phrase on Mumsnet at the moment and isn't something I have come across anywhere else. Can you explain exactly what it means please?

Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace (maybe Oscar Wilde)

We all draw it in different places (me).

Thanks for the input. Like I said I'm trying to sort my head out about it. Not virtue signalling ffs.

Flippetydip that's about the size of it.
But as others said it's her choice and I have to accept that. I have another friend who got a puppy two years ago and if she was a rescue I'm sure we'd guess she'd been starved and ill treated in the past judging by current behaviour.

Of course I know we are all different. I'm just not alright about not walking the talk. I've just finished reading man's search for meaning and maybe that, plus menopause?, mean I'm sensitive at the moment. Ah what the fuck, I'm always sensitive and always want to do the right thing. Bite me.

On this basis, humans shouldn't have babies because there are lots needing adoption

I'm just not alright about not walking the talk.

That isn't what this is, though. No-one is asking you to go and buy a puppy. Just not to overtly judge a friend who has different beliefs to you. There is no need for her to walk your talk.

@m0therofdragons - really, is that comparable? How many people do you know who make money out of birthing and selling babies? And speaking as someone very close to adoption - there are not lots of babies needing adoption, just like there are not lots of puppies needing adoption, and the process to get there is incredibly hard.

The 'right thing' can very subjective, because nobody is ever in possession of all the facts, and often not in possession of enough to pass judgement.

Some people claim to be much more moral than others and do this by pointing out the superiority of their own actions or feelings and being judgemental about other people. This used to be called being sanctimonious. Now, if it's done about more fashionable causes, then it's virtue signalling.

Personally, I don't think it's a sin to buy a puppy, provided you do your due diligence.

Sounds like you don't like her oh very much.
Everyone is different. I have had most of my dogs from puppies and they have all lived between 12 and 15 years and we have enjoyed each others company in that time. No one has the right to tell me that buying a puppy is irresponsible because I have always taken my dog owning responsibilities very seriously. I have also had a few rescue dogs and have found them considerably more difficult to 'settle in' than puppies, which is why I would never have another one. Added to which none of the rescues (4 in total) were as described. At least a puppy is a blank canvas.
Live your life by your standards, but don't expect other people to want to, or even agree with you. I think you seem a bit over involved in what your friend does.

I have a purebreed, bought from an ethical, well researched breeder. I checked and cross checked everything (health results, registrations, number of litters bred in a year, number of litters from each bitch, frequency of litters, number of dogs owned. You name it, I checked it). I went to visit the breeder before the mating had even happened, to look at their set up, go through all their paperwork and meet the bitch and their other dogs (4 generations of breeding and ex breeding bitches). I then went again once the bitch was pregnant (4 months later). I know my dog came from ethically bred stock and a loving environment that cares about welfare.

As for the money side of things, breeding ethically and healthily is NOT cheap, no one in their right mind would do it for free! Health tests (some of which have to be done annually), equipment (whelping beds, heat lamps/pads etc), insemination or stud fees for health checked sire, fertility tests for the bitch to check she’s ‘ready’, scan fees to confirm pregnancy, potential vet fees for any pregnancy care or problematic, vet fees for puppies (regular flea & wormings, health check, microchipping, vaccination), KC registration. Plus probably loads of other incidentals I don’t realise.

It isn’t a guaranteed goldmine either, you could be a big litter and make a small profit but next time you might have a single puppy or two and make a loss. Unless you are doing it like puppy farmers, large volumes of puppies bred without veterinary care or health testing, I doubt anyone is retiring to the Caymans on the profits.

Problematic whelping that should say.

As for not ‘giving the dogs away’, rescues don’t give animals away for free either. You usually have to pay a contribution to the charity to cover the chipping and neutering. Rightly so.