Puppy Support Group 2

[DuchessDarty]

A continuation of this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_doghouse/3600375-Young-Puppy-Support-Group

All age of puppies (and owners ) welcome

Hi, we have an 11 week old Maltipoo pup who is lovely and getting on well. I’m just having a nightmare at night! She goes crazy and barks when put in the crate. But settles after around 10-20 mins. The issue I have is during the night. She wakes barking so today I went down to let her out to go to the toilet as all advice seems to say (she is going inside as she can’t go out yet), and she’s now gone completely mad barking when put back in the crate. Everything I’ve read is to let a puppy out during the night to relieve themselves but ours only wants to be with us, so seeing us in the night and then having to go back into the crate is too much for her. Does everyone else have a puppy that just settles back after being let out? I don’t see what the solution is.
We bought a pen so she could come out of the crate by herself at night to relieve herself, but she climbed out of it twice. Can anyone help/advise? She’s been barking for 30 mins now. I get that she’s not happy in the crate, but what is the alternative? Our breeder and many other people I’ve met have said not to go to them and leave to settle themselves and they’ll learn eventually. She’s been with us 1 1/2 weeks and I’d say it’s worse in terms of her barking and whining at night, not better.

@Snufflesdog, I am trying to distract him from other dogs by asking him to sit and rewarding calm behaviour. I have had to move quite far away before he will focus on me. Hoping that as he gets older he calms down 😄 On a positive note, I’ve finally managed to train him to fetch a ball using treats. I’m hoping he will enjoy a game of fetch on walks because that should help to keep his focus on me.
@eaudenil, we have just given up putting our 5 month old pup in a crate during the night because he kept waking us up. He was doing okay then started getting up 3 times a night to go to the toilet. A few days ago he started to whine in his crate after going to the toilet. I finally cracked after weeks of broken sleep. Left the crate door open so he could choose where to sleep. Most of the time he sleeps on a blanket on the floor but also sleeps on our bed. I’m not sure if it was the right decision, but getting a decent night’s sleep is my priority at the moment. He now sleeps 10:30 to when we get up without any toilet breaks, so it looks like the last few weeks he has been waking up for human contact. I struggle with him moving about on our bed though. Last night he was waking us up a lot moving about to find a comfy spot. Our bed is really high, so he can’t get down without help. Will be looking at dog stairs later!

@eudenil have you crate trained? Or just put puppy in there?
Where do they sleep during the day?
What did you do night one?
We’re they crates before coming to you?
Do they have separation anxiety normally?

Our puppy sleeps through 10.30 - 8.30 sometimes 9!
Occasionally gets up once for a wee.
At your puppies age she was doing the same
But getting up regularly once or twice. She would go back in no problem and go straight so sleep.

The first week I slept downstairs with her, just moving away from the crate, and available quickly to let her out.
Every time she went back in after her wee there would be treats in the bed.
She would eat these happily and then just fall asleep.
It doesn’t sound like your dog thinks this is a safe or happy place to be.
Day time crate training may be a good idea.
We also started out using bedtime biscuits from Lilly’s kitchen. No idea if they worked but worth a shot.

Also where is the crate
Is it covered? Are they warm? Too warm? Do they have water
Are they challenged enough during the day so tired at bed time? Are they napping too close to bedtime?

Thanks @heatseeker14 the problem we have is even if we let her out of the crate she’d still bark unless she is with us. She can’t climb the stairs yet so wouldn’t be able to get upstairs. We didn’t want her sleeping on the beds so bringing her up seems to be creating an expectation, but we may have no option but to do this. She’s the most tenacious little thing. Our breeder said to leave her but it’s getting progressively worse so I’m not sure that’s best.
On Saturday she’ll be able to go outside finally, does anyone notice this changes their energy levels? I’m also thinking she’s just in the house all day so maybe isn’t so tired when it comes to nighttime?

We took puppy out for ‘socialising’ and to others houses
Also lots of brain games in the house and a ton of chasing and ‘fetching’ (not a natural retriever and we’ve not quite got it yet)
Tired her out!

Sounds like you need to work on her anxiety at being left though
Good luck - we’re struggling with it still!

Eau you can still take them out just carry them, I took our pup out every single day even if it was just for a carry round the block. It's a really important time for socialisation, you basically have until they're 16 weeks to expose them to everything they may one day encounter!!!

Personally I'd preserve with the crate at night, I got up a couple of times a night for the first couple of months (we had our pup from 8 weeks.) It was a pita but he does now sleep in the crate from 10.30pm until 8.30am, I'm a light sleeper and really didn't want him upstairs at night.

I think the mistake I made was not encouraging our pup to sleep in the crate during the day. I didn’t really see the point because I’m around for most of the day. He is okay for 2-3 hours in the crate if I go out though. If our pup wants a bit of piece and quiet, he sleeps round the side of the sofa on a blanket. I would imagine that’s why he didn’t want to sleep in the crate overnight, so if you persevere with crate training it may work for you @eaudenil. We didn’t want our pup sleeping with us. Must be getting soft in my old age 😂 I also really need my sleep!!

Thanks for the advice/tips. Yes. I think you’re right she doesn’t love the crate. All advice we were given including from breeder was never to sleep downstairs with her, never to go to her in the night, don’t have her in the room etc. I then read a lot about going to let them out to wee/poo in the night. But whenever I did this she went absolutely insane with excitement that I’d come, and then barked for 1 hour afterwards when she’d been put in the crate. It was heartbreaking for me to see her little face so happy I’d come and then I put her back and left her again :-(. She doesn’t use the crate in the day, no. I did give her treats in there from the start, I tried to make it a placed she’d love. She did start going in herself and we always gave her treats when she did. Now she goes in to get them and brings them out. I think the crate is cosy, it’s covered, she’s not cold.
I do take her out and about in the bag - she been to lots of places and met many people.
Tonight she whined for about 15 mins then slept. Barked at 3am and barked 5am-5:30. Everyone I know with puppies now (I have a number of friends who currently have puppies) has said do not go to them or you’ll never get past this! We do not want her in our room, so that’s not an option.

I just don’t really understand how you crate train to make it a positive place to be, yet need to put them in it from day 1. So they have the negative experience of being shut in there at night before you’ve had time to make the crate a positive place. I do realize I’ve done things wrong and do want to make it better for her. She sleeps on the sofa or on one of us during the day. All she wants is to be with someone! She just loves to be cuddled and close. But she’s still a baby so I get that.

www.simplybehaviour.com/letting-dog-cry-cause-permanent-damage/

Crying it out isn't advised anymore. If you join the fbook group dog training and advice which is run by behaviourists you'll find lots of info and can post for individual free advice.
I bought my puppy home at 8 weeks, after trying to leave her in her crate and her becoming very distressed I slept next to her crate on the sofa for 3 weeks until she was happy in her crate then moved myself back upstairs. In the day all meals and treats were fed in the crate and playing etc to make it a happy place.
I'd sleep next to her or put her crate in your room for a few weeks whilst working on the crate training. Mine is 16 weeks and happily goes to sleep in her crate, she still needs a wee at about 4am but literally runs back in to her crate after to go back to sleep without a murmer. Do take a look at the fbook group, lots of info there.

@HarrietBasset thank you. I’ll have a look. I’m always thinking in the back of my mind this could well not be good for her. Such a minefield! I’ll have a good read and see if we can do something better.

eaudenil - i last had a puppy 13 years ago and left her to cry, I feel bad about it now as the advice makes more sense these days. If you keep her close for a few weeks she'll be more confident. I never thought mine would be happy as larry in her crate but a few weeks training and sleeping near her transformed things x

Is anyone brushing puppies teeth?
No matter what I try she just wants to bite/chew/play tug with the tooth brush.
It doesn’t help that she thinks the tooth paste is delicious

I’ve tried introducing separately and calmly advised but she just gets so bitey when she sees the brush.

We're having a bit of puppy regression here! Dpup has decided at 7 months he suddenly hates the crate 🙄 he went from settling in it perfectly between 10.30pm-8.30am to crying all night!!

Last night I cracked at 3am and bought him upstairs and he slept without a peep the rest of the night. So annoying as really didn't want him upstairs at night but not sure what I can do. He was so distressed, really crying and whimpering 😪 I can't cope with that all night!!

He also seems more anxious about being left on his own at home.

Is this part of the teenage phase, to completely regress in some areas?!

@Girliefriendlikespuppies I came on here to write the same thing! My puppy is exactly 6mths and slept through the night but now whimpers and cries and then barks throughout the night. He is absolutely fine during the day in the crate - currently asleep in there whilst I'm typing this! But he is also much more bark'y and stressed when I leave the room so I wonder if it's some sort of separation anxiety. The whole family has been around over Christmas but now DH back to work which I think has affected him.

Really struggling with this - no sleep (also don't want him upstairs, he's very hairy and I think we'll all disturb each other) plus I can't do anything (chores, shopping, work!) - he barks if I just go upstairs to the toilet.

Sorry I can't give advice but hoping someone who has been through this can come and help us both. I have big puppy blues......

Yes my dog went through several regression periods especially with the crate or being left.

With being left I just went back to basics a bit.

With the crate we persevered until he was about 1 years of age when he had another period where he really resisted going into it at night when we decided to get rid of it.

Also meant to say - I didn't do the crying out. Slept downstairs for the first few weeks, letting him out to go to toilet when he cried - which was only once or twice a night. Then he slept through and was fine. So I was very happy with that approach.

Now I'm not sure - don't want to ignore his cries but also don't want to sleep in the kitchen. Maybe I should go back to basics and sleep downstairs again?? Any decent book / online info about treating separation anxiety?

We had a short period where lazypup started crying when put in crate at night. One of us sat in the kitchen watching tv with him in the crate and he settled to sleep. Then we went upstairs and he was fine.

Had to go it for 3 nights. It happened after we had been away without him tho.

SmileyPup is 6.5 months and we got rid of the crate a couple of months ago. He had always settled fine but started crying so we took it away and he sleeps fine now. He used to sleep next to our bed but he has started taking himself downstairs to sleep at night so I think DH's snoring must be disturbing him

We have had some regression here though too. He has started doing a wee/poo in the night. He was going all night but for the past week he has done a wee or poo each night - always in the bathroom. We have put puppy pads down now and he always goes on them but I don't know why it has started. We have started feeding him twice a day as he wasn't fussed with his lunch so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. We are taking him for a quick walk before bed as an extra walk as he tends to poo on walks so I'm hoping that helps. It is very frustrating though! I'm desperate to get all my carpets professionally cleaned but wanted to wait until we were done with the accidents!

@lazymum99 thanks - that is what we've been doing when he goes to bed but it's not really helping now. He may settle like that but then, an hour later, he's crying and whimpering. Can't ignore him because he starts barking very loudly. And that repeats throughout the night.

@Keepsmiling1 I'm not convinced it's the crate - more being away from us. As much as I don't want the crate in the kitchen, I like that I know he is safe if I go out. I haven't left him alone for a couple of weeks (teens on holiday) so that will be the interesting next step.

@BiteyShark - thanks, do you have any recommendations for the basics? I'm not sure what to do - I do have 3 puppy books (couldn't decide in the excitement of getting a puppy so bought them all!) so will have a look if they have any guidance.

Bluepup decided the crate wasn't for her at about 5 months. She stays in the kitchen/diner area and I shut the door in the evening, she been fine there just cosies up until we get up. We spend a lot of time in the area as a family so perhaps she can still smell our scent which might help settle her even when we aren't there?

Our pup is 17 weeks and has decided he doesn’t like the confines of his pen anymore and can now clamber out of it. After a few night of pissing about, putting him back in etc we’ve decided to remove it all together. Wish us luck tonight!

Really interesting chat, glad I posted! I've actually made a vets appointment for tomorrow as dpup seems a bit out of sorts. I fully expect the vet to tell me he is just being a normal teenager though 🙄

He cried today by the front door for no obvious reason and got really stressed when I left him to go to work for a couple of hours (has always been fine on his own for a few hours.)

I spoke to dd earlier to try and get a plan, we will persevere with trying to get him to sleep downstairs, I don't mind getting rid of the crate if he doesn't like it. Tonight I'll leave the crate open so he has the hallway and kitchen to go in if he wants.

I've bought some adult dog food by mistake, will he be okay with that now at 7 months?