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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Buying a choc lab but is this legit?

74 replies

BrexitBingoGenerator · 15/07/2019 09:59

Hello everyone,

Firstly, thank you all so much for your earlier advice about cockers. Over the weekend, my husbands colleague found out about our search for a dog and has invited us round to see his litter of choc labs. They obviously look ridiculously cute, I mean - ‘stuff them all in the car and steal them all’ cute.

However, from doing so much reading on here, it seems like there may be some red flags to look out for. I don’t want to risk buying a dog who may suffer health problems or play a part in subjecting the mum dog to harm somehow. Essentially, I’m looking for advice about how not to buy a dog from a dodgy backyard breeder.

Dh says his colleague is lovely and they have been v honest and upfront so far, but then- if the dogs are worth £1000, they would be- wouldn’t they?

Any help or advice is much appreciated!

Thank you all Smile

OP posts:
FairfaxAikman · 16/07/2019 15:00

The only people I know who refuse to go to a rescue centre are those who think they are a cut above everyone else
I won't (or more specifically can't) Rescue because I work mine. I need to know what I'm getting and I'm yet to see that I'm a rescue. Nothing to do with being a "cut above".

Also not all rescues are scrupulous with assessment. My mother's rehomed one recently and it's proving to be well beyond her capabilities (majorly reactive) and even beyond mine. Either the rescue wasn't honest or it wasn't thorough - either way similar experiences can and do put many people off rescues.

Walney · 16/07/2019 15:05

I'm glad you have come here for advice as it looks like you are making the right decision by not buying one of these puppies.

It does sound to me like they have bred their dog simply to make some money and this should be discouraged. There are plenty of breeders out there who do health testing and do the process responsibly, by the price being the first thing they mentioned that is a great big warning signal.

Unfortunately the only way breeding like this can be stopped is by refusing to buy from these people, but its just not always easy to spot bad breeders.

mrsjg · 16/07/2019 15:17

Interested to see how the meeting goes and what you find out.

Original poster
BrexitBingoGenerator · 16/07/2019 17:13

Hi again everyone, I met the puppies today and thought that I would update...

Basically, mum is a 5th gen working pedigree and has a big family tree document from the KC. However, she has no documentation to show she is clear of any of the health checks listed above. The owner said that he just didn’t think to ask for any of these things. However, she is now three and seems in great condition, calm and in full health (well, as far as I could tell anyway!).

Dad is a stud 5th generation pedigree from a breeder. He was not there but there are documents online showing that he is completely clear of any of the health conditions listed above.

They both have pedigree numbers and I am going to research tonight to see if I can find out any further provenance on the mum. He is doing that too and we will share what we’ve found tomorrow.

He let me know that they are £800 for the boys and £900 for the girls.

Of the eight, 5 have been reserved for friends and he is only selling these three.

What do you all think? Thank you again - I am SO grateful for your wise counsel on this one!

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 16/07/2019 18:01

If he hasn’t done the health tests then I would walk away. He just didn’t think? So either he’s clueless or he doesn’t want the cost of the tests eating into his profits. Avoid.

FairfaxAikman · 16/07/2019 18:09

Even if he had asked for the bitches parents test results he should still have had tests done on the bitch - parents being clear doesn't guarantee a pup will be clear.
And unless the fairly standard five generation pedigree is fairly full of champions (show or field) he's asking way too much.

AwkwardPaws27 · 16/07/2019 18:10

The health checks aren't something he'd have got with the bitch (like pedigree papers) - he should have arranged for them to be done before having her covered by the stud dog. Any vet / vet nurse could have advised him of that, so they have done zero research or decided not to bother...

adaline · 16/07/2019 18:17

The owner needs to do the health checks himself.

All dogs should be screened before being bred - then the puppies are hopefully the healthiest they can be. But before they're bred from, the puppies themselves need the same health checks.

In other words, he hasn't bothered. So how can he justify a £1000 price tag for puppies who come from a bitch that hasn't been health-tested?

SunnyInGrimsby · 16/07/2019 18:23

Just to echo what so many others have said; he doesn't sound very professional and I just don't understand why anyone would want to breed from a family pet with the attendant worries if not just to turn a fast buck.

I read a very sad story about a family who had their 1 year old spaniel stolen. 7 years later she was discovered wandering in the street, apparently having been used as a breeding machine then discarded.

I run a dog trust and financially help various smaller rescues. I just find it so sad that knowing all the good-natured, loving and healthy unwanted dogs and puppies in the world, people want to breed even more - for profit.

I fully understand that some rescues are far too controlling regarding adoptions - bizarrely they would prefer dogs to be living miserable lives in appalling shelters rather than give them a decent chance with loving owners who might, shock horror, have a grandchild that visits once a week or whatever.

Do check out smaller rescues: I can recommend Greek Animal Rescue who have loads of beautiful friendly (some lab like) dogs on their site as well as 3, 7 month old puppies at the moment.

daisydotandgertie · 16/07/2019 18:24

Can you PM me the KC names of sire and dam and I will check them out for you?

Scattyhattie · 16/07/2019 18:36

Sorry but he sounds like someone breeding his pet & not much of a clue if didn't know about what the tests involve, if they'd been done sure breeder would be keen to show you results while there.

I meet fair few labs at hydrotherapy, some are very young & already with painful knackered hips/elbows restricting their lives, its really sad especially if owners can't afford surgery. Breeders should do the best within their control to ensure the pups lead healthy lives otherwise are really just in it for the money.

LolaSmiles · 16/07/2019 18:44

He should have done tests before breeding. This sounds like a backyard sort of a deal where they're now back tracking.

I would be inclined to step away OP.

Original poster
BrexitBingoGenerator · 16/07/2019 19:12

Thank you everyone- yes you’ve echoed exactly what I have been thinking.

If I were to go back to him and ask that he has the necessary puppy checks performed with the paperwork to prove it, would that be an option?
It doesn’t get round the either ‘opportunistic breeder’ issue, or the prohibitive cost though!

OP posts:
Original poster
BrexitBingoGenerator · 16/07/2019 19:14

daisydotandgertie thank you so much - I will send them over to you. Only if you have time though, I don’t want to put you to any bother!

OP posts:
AwkwardPaws27 · 16/07/2019 19:15

Puppy health checks aren't going to tell you if they are a high risk for hip and joints issues as adults.

PoppingOneOutIn2020 · 16/07/2019 19:23

My mums husband had a friend who dumped his dog on him when he couldnt look after him, we found out he was not checked, had no papers ect but AAA told he was a healthy pedigree.

He has to be put down at 5 year old due to hip, joint problems and cancer. Absolutely devastating as labs seems to be tail wagging and tongue hanging no matter how much pain they are in. Such a lovely, family pet didnt deserve such a short life.

Please, please be careful when buying any pets! Flowers

averylongtimeago · 16/07/2019 19:28

Labs (and retrievers) are one of the breeds that can suffer from elbow or hip dysphasia- really painful and expensive conditions.
There are also eye conditions which should be tested for in the parents as these are genetic.

The tests are not cheap- he either has not bothered or has and the results were bad.
Walk away OP, a vet check by the vet on a puppy won't show up all future problems.
Buy from a reputable breeder, where all the checks have been done. Reputable breeders have waiting lists, and they interview prospective owners before they consider even letting you see the puppies.

Oliversmumsarmy · 16/07/2019 19:47

I just find it so sad that knowing all the good-natured, loving and healthy unwanted dogs and puppies in the world, people want to breed even more - for profit

This.

I have to ask what provision people put in place for puppies when they work ft.

Dp worked ft and so did i for a few months but I was also able to come back at lunch time to see dpup and someone was looking after her during the day.

LabradorMama · 16/07/2019 19:57

It’s the bitch that should have been health tested, not the pups. Before breeding from a bitch (or dog) the responsible Labrador owner will have the animal’s hips and elbows x rayed. The x rays are then examined and given a score. You’re looking for the lowest score possible, basically the higher the score, the higher the chance of problems with the hips/elbows. Animals with a score above the Kennel Club accepted standard should not be bred from. This is very important in Labradors as they are prone to hip and elbow dysplasia.
The animal’s eyes should also be tested to ensure there are no conditions present which could be passed on to offspring.
These are the MINIMUM of health tests that you should be looking for. Ideally the bitch should be aged five or under too.
DO NOT get lured in by the cute puppies of the health tests have not been done. I’ve seen the results, the worst was a friend whose parents bought a pup from untested parents, it had horrific hip dysplasia, was crippled by age one and put down at 18 months. Whole lot of expensive heart ache and a very sad situation for the dog

Wolfiefan · 16/07/2019 20:07

Any vet check of the pup will just tell you it doesn’t look sick right now. It won’t tell you the likelihood of the pup developing severe inherited conditions.
No testing of sire and dam before breeding? Walk away.

Gummybear11 · 17/07/2019 00:41

Lots rejected by UK rescue adopt through Cypriot/Spanish/Romanian rescue instead. No excuse to buy from a breeder IMO.

adaline · 17/07/2019 07:29

@Gummybear11 plenty of dogs from overseas rescues have their own problems.

I've seen several threads from people who've adopted from overseas (both on here and on other websites) who now have dogs with quite serious behavioural problems due to their backgrounds.

Rescue is all well and good but it definitely isn't for everyone. Dogs may end up in rescue for innocuous reasons (like owners becoming ill or dying) but being stuck in a kennel for months on end can give dogs their own issues too.

Gummybear11 · 17/07/2019 07:35

@adaline There are many, many puppies available for adoption from these rescues, particularly Spain/Cyprus.

BiteyShark · 17/07/2019 07:49

No excuse to buy from a breeder IMO.

I really don't understand why people who want to buy from a breeder are in the wrong.

The people who get a puppy or older dog and abandon them are in the wrong. It isn't the responsibility of others to pick up the pieces. Yes it's nice and wonderful if someone does that but getting a rescue dog or puppy is not without it's own issues or risk. Personally I preferred to pay a breeder and got a clear history with parental dna test results than a puppy from a rescue that didn't have any of that.