Can a dog still nip through a muzzle?

[Doggydoggydoggy]

Plastic basket style?

dogscience.org/workshop/letsgo.shtml

If it’s this, she knows this already and will return immediately.
But it doesn’t stop dogs harassing her and she will look back and growl/snarl if they are coming in front to block her or right up her back end following.
I have literally had dogs follow her over a huge distance with their owners calling ineffectually.
I have also had a dog bite her as she turned her back on it and came back to me.

This definately isn’t herding.
My collie is working bred and shows plenty of herding instinct right from a little puppy but this is definate aggression unfortunately.

I do have rural walks yes but unfortunately you do sometimes run into dogs who will pursue over huge distance and will not go away no matter how far you walk or how many times you change direction! Extremely annoying and frightening.

Only read the first page but just wanted to say Collies are also known as intelligent and do feed off human emotion so your anxiety may be effecting the dog as well. Barking and lunging are anxious dog actions and the dog needs putting in place and you to demonstrate leadership over the dog.

I found the critical thing with dogs is to be consistent and firm and show them who is boss and if they don't react keep practicing the action and reward them. Collies do need occupying - sounds like short term a secure field maybe a way to go a couple of times a week - maybe with dogs she is friendly with (even if need muzzle, you may also find less reactive off lead too)

• but work on asserting yourself and making the dog do what you want EVERY time

Mines not perfect yet and she is 5 next month, clever and stubborn but we keep training and refresh things too - recall used to be awful but its now every time

Sorry to hear about this I think the idea to go running with her and using a long line lead at other times, along with hiring an enclosed field occasionally if poss and/using the dog walker to give her some free runs.
If it is your anxiety affecting her then clearly every time you go out in a way you don't feel confident about you are reinforcing the problem.
I do think it would be sad to rehome her if you can avoid it.

I've read most of this thread (and all of your posts) op I sympathise. I have a very clever collie cross.

I have made my peace with the fact that I can control him but not the rest of the world.

The 'my dog is friendly' brigade - not cool. If my dog is on lead, he's calm and under control. If your dog then comes into his space and is winding him up then there's going to be a standoff. But you're not in the wrong. YOUR dog is Under control.

Sniffy walks, brain games, canicross secure fields are great. Don't beat yourself up the your dog needs to be off lead burning off energy. It's a bit of a myth.

We have yellow space vests/leads etc.

If other dog owners let theirs over to mine than that's their look out. I'm done worrying about the rest of the world.

My dog doesn't like lots of others dogs after being attacked. He doesn't need to meet them daily.

To me it's like me being made to go and meet people who look like the school bully. Why? I don't want to meet more people thank you. Just leave me alone!

Bugger. I messed up 'your dog and mine' sorry. Not sure it makes sense.

Nope if the muzzle fits right then they can’t bite, they can still hit them with the muzzle, as in yes a proper muzzle punch but also just a bit of a hit can be a bit sore.

IMO it sounds like you’re recalling too late, there should be nowhere to follow her from if you recalled as soon as you can see a dog... that would eliminate most of the encounters.

OP I was suggesting agility more to work on YOUR issues which would then hopefully translate into other areas. As you have said she is ok with the dog walker and your DH but feeds off your anxiety. Btw that came through your reasons for not wanting to do agility as it's all about how she gets wound up and frustrated etc which you find stressful and can't manage.

I think it would teach you how to be confident because if you aren't and stressed the dog won't understand what you want. It would teach YOU how to direct your dog and get your dog looking to you for guidance rather than seeing an anxious owner.

Do you understand the reason for the aggression/reactivity? Once you get a handle on that it is so much easier to understand what you have to do to help it.

I know you are upset but your posts are extremely negative - if you do not change your mindset your situation will stay the same. Change and you will see change

If you do not want advice do not post on a forum asking for advice - if you do want advice listen to it and see change.

However all of this will be so much easier with a qualified emphatic behaviourist on tow. I know I know you have seen one but not one that worked well with you and your dog keep looking.

Just for context I was at a scentwork trial this weekend out of the 15 dogs 5 were extremely reactive, the owners wore tabards saying keep away , we all gave the dogs space, let them trial one at a time and they had a great day. Reactive dogs are everywhere and a lot of owners are managing and controlling this - you can too.

OP you sound like you care too much about other people. So a ‘friendly’ dog runs up and gets told off. This is not your fault if yours is on a lead and under control.
If an owner pressures you to let your dog say hello just say no thanks and move on.
If someone’s dog tries to approach, block it and tell the owner to get hold of it now.

There is absoloutey no reason your dog needs to interact if it does not want too.

No detox because I am told different things by different people
I have been told she’s completely normal and just correcting poor behaviour.
I have been told she’s fearful.
I have been told she is confident and being bossy/bullying
I have been told she is resource guarding.

So, I don’t really know what to think or do!
Everything I have been told to do I have done.

Indeed but I feel negative!
Spending so much time and energy and money in trying to fix a problem and having it escalate to such a serious point is soul destroying.

I never really give up trying, I have tried for years and I continue to try.
I have listened to advice given here and am grateful for it but based on previous events I am deeply fearful that nothing will change, but I never stop trying as long as she is with me.

The thing is... you might not be able to change how your dog is... I’m not saying you can’t or give up on training, just... sometimes dogs can’t be “fixed” but even if you get no progress, there’s a lot you can do management wise that’ll make your life easier.

If you stop letting her meet other dogs, whether that’s recalling her sooner or never letting her offlead in public places... and btw, energy levels make no odds as far as that goes, my dog died before Christmas, but for 5 years he didn’t get offlead in public spaces, he was a rottie so a high energy herding breed as well. You just do other things to keep them occupied instead of relying on being offlead to tire them out.

Work on her impulse control, train her to calm down when she’s over excited... they’ll keep her busy enough to start with.

Once you’re managing her better and not having incidents - then you’d be in a better place to rethink what you’re doing about the actual behaviour issue.

Honestly I know how you feel. I had an extremely fear aggressive german Shepherd.
I had training, behaviourists both adpt and veterinary referred, medications, followed care and bat to the letter. I also did agility, training and even went on reactive dog camp.

Long story short the dog always remained the same. Something was wired wrong I expect as much as I loved her but once I accepted the that this was life and she didn’t have to fit into the expected happy go lucky dog bracket and could still enjoy life in her own way it took the pressure off.
I walked her muzzled, never allowed interactions of any kind and she eventually got to the point she was happy enough with her new normal.

Sadly that dog is no longer alive but I have two others and still don’t allow them to interact with others much because I don’t see why it’s neccessary.

Maybe your dog senses your fear and is protecting you? It's unfair to keep a dog on the lead when she can see other dogs running free.
Either your DH takes her out for long runs off the lead every day or rehome her.

Could also be dog senses fear and then thinks maybe there is something to be afraid of? Its pretty difficult to tell on a forum, really need a real life person, preferably qualified or at very least knowledgeable.
Also if other dogs are chasing yours its not entirely your problem, but other person will probably tell you it is, especially if your dog reacts badly. Obviously theirs are only playing, yours is nasty. Had plenty of this.
If it was me I'd muzzle and lead the dog, both of us relax, if other dogs chase they are clearly in the wrong and out of control, no argument. Then figure out some form of exercise/training we would both enjoy.

Just curious, have you tried herding with her? I realise most of us don't have sheep, which could be problematic(!), but round here there was quite a trialling fraternity, and its not an area I would have associated with sheep dog trials!

Oh yes near is there is trei ball I think? Herding a big gym ball.

I think mine would love it!

Never heard of that before, just googled it. Amazing what you learn on this forum, isn't it?!! Wish I'd found it years ago.

Ball-herding. Excellent, made me laugh anyway.