Ripped to shreds

[rippedtoshreds]

Puppy advice please.
We have a springer. Got her at 8 weeks and now she’s 13 weeks.
She’s settled in pretty well, sleeping midnight til 6.30, has had someone home with her pretty much solid since we got her. She’ll settle in her crate in the day time.
She’s eating fine, playing fine etc.
The problem is the bloody biting. It’s horrific. From 6.30am until bed at midnight she just bites, pounces, attacks.
She jumps up for affection and as soon as you pick her up she’s ripping your hair out, or puncturing your hands and arms, even biting noses and faces.
You only have to walk from one side of the room to the other and she’s hanging off your trousers growling or off my shoe laces or slippers.
Every single person who’s come to visit her has puncture wounds in their hands.
The kids are covered in scratches, little bite marks, their clothes are ripped and this is literally happening when walking from the lounge to the toilet. They are separated by stairs gates the entire rest of the time.
If I want the kids to come in the kitchen for lunch then I have to pick them up over the stair gate and carry them to their chairs or they get attacked and bitten on their legs. The whole time the dog is hanging off my jeans biting me while I’m carrying the kids.
We put her in her crate for a minute to calm down, but as soon as she comes out she’s attacking again.
My parents are desperately worried that we’ve got an aggressive dog around the kids, even though she’s only 13 weeks old.

She’s from a registered breeder and is pedigree.
She can’t go out yet as hasn’t had all of her jabs, but I play with her in the garden chucking a ball for 15 minute spells. If anything this ramps up the aggression and she’ll come in all wound up and attack even more.
We take her for car rides and to meet friends dogs which wears her out slightly.
Evenings are the worst. She almost goes into a frenzied attack and we will be sat on the sofa and she’ll just fly through the air at you and basically attack you.
If something has scared her then she’ll attack too.
My LO bought a balloon home from a party. The dog saw it on the other side of the room, started barking manically and then just ran around in a frenzy biting everyone.
I’ve had experience of puppies before, but have never experienced such a bitey aggressive puppy.
Please tell me this is normal for springers and she’ll grow out of it?
I’m so worried that she’ll be an aggressive dog.

She’s on hills no grain puppy food.

Depends on the dog I suppose. I don’t let mine on the furniture. Giant hound!

We were told to withdraw all attention from our pups when they bit. Put them down with a firm no, turn your back on them and ignore. They were shut in another room for a few minutes if needed. They also got a little flick on the end of the nose if they actually hurt anyone rather than playful mouthing.

Neither were too bad but we all had a few puppy war wounds. Totally stopped now though and the little one is only 13 months

It sounds miserable but also pretty normal for a puppy, I know Eric was a nightmare from twelve to seventeen weeks with the nipping. Coincided with him teething tbh.
I would stop picking her up, she might feel insecure up off the ground and it will stop her getting the opportunity to nip your faces and hands.
Work on getting her used to a collar and lead and then use the lead to move her where you want her to be.
I know with Eric yelping when he nipped just over excited him and made him nip more so try standing still and silent with your back to her so as to remove the fun from her nipping. We did resort to the occasional time out for Eric when he persisted nipping after we had stood still and silent and a sharp no and popping him behind a stair gate seemed to make him learn really quickly as he was desperate to be with us.
Try giving her a raw carrot to chew on or freezing wet knotted flannels as she could be teething and nipping to get relief from pain in her mouth.

It’s just stressful isn’t it.
I just feel really down about it.
I’m not giving the kids or the puppy enough attention.
I suppose it will be better when the kids go back to school, but we’ve had a crap Xmas. We’ve not really left the puppy, but when we are home with her she just attacks everyone.
And now she’s weed on the floor.

I have a cocker and they don't call them cockerdiles for nothing.

Firstly puppies bite (mouth) and some more than others. Mine used to launch himself at me and hang from my jeans so I had holes and bruises from him doing that as a puppy.

You need to be consistent and patient. Never reward them for biting or jumping. Remove yourself from her every single time. Baby gates are great for this. The worst 'punishment' for biting (I say biting but it's mouthing) is boredom. They, especially spaniels, want your company. If you remove yourself so they don't have your attention and company each time they soon get the message but you can't expect it to happen instantly especially as it's been fun for her for weeks.

Don't yelp as it just makes lots of them worse. Don't reward her for jumping, ever. Never pick her up, simply cross arms and turn away or get yourself behind a baby gate until she is calmer.

Watch for her being overly tired. They are like over tired toddlers which is why their behaviour is often far worse in the evening. I got very good at recognising that time and enforced timeouts in his crate when he went into his crazy puppy spaniel mode. In the crate he would try and rip up his bed for a few minutes then crash out to sleep and awake a normal puppy again.

Lots of people will say get rid as they just see and hear biting and dog. But yours is just 13 weeks old and is a typical bitey, bouncing, untrained puppy. Check out all the puppy survival threads on here and you will see that it isn't abnormal.

Get yourself a good 1-1 trainer to come to the house (I have paid between £30 and £50 for 1-2 hours). It will be money well worth spending as you sound like you need help to help guide your puppy.

I’m trying to get her used to a lead. She’s fine with a collar but as soon as the lead is on she just grabs it in her mouth, shakes it, growls, walks backwards etc.
We’ve done a bit of lead training in the garden.
Would a harness be better?
And she’s lovely, but she’s so stinky too!
Used to rotties and staffies and they’re not half as stinky.
Purposely researched breeds as wanted a family friendly dog, and we’ve ended up with a shark instead of a dog.

Our lab used to do this he was like a little crocodile jumping up and snapping his mouth. In the end we used to put him in his crate with the door shut or in a different room for a very short amount of time say 20 seconds. It snapped him out of it and he came back out nice and calm.

Yes I think she needs more enforced quiet time. I feel bad putting her in her crate, but otherwise she won’t sleep in the day.
In all fairness she’s in her crate an hour in the morning after her breakfast when we get up, maybe an hour late morning, and perhaps 45 mins around tea time.
But I think 3 hours a day is a lot to be crated no?
But also in a way I think she could do with more! They say 18 hours a day sleeping at her age and she gets perhaps 12 hours even with 3 hours in her crate.

I could’ve written this post myself a few months ago. My whippet pup was very similar and I also got the ‘rehome’ advice when I asked on here.
My pup is now approaching 7 months and the seemingly never ending puppy biting has 90% stopped. At the time, it felt like it would never improve but it did. We found the best way was to walk away from him and either shut ourselves ir him in another room for a couple of minutes with a firm ‘no biting’ command. The kids learnt to go behind the stair gate with their back to him or into another room. He did learn that being ignored was no fun and biting stopped play.
He was much worse when overtired so we made a conscious effort to ensure he was sleeping enough (he has now literally just surfaced and we now have the opposite issue of trying to get him out of bed)!!
It does seem never ending and makes you feel like crap but it honestly does get better and you will look back in a few months time and wonder why you felt so bad. Hang in there!

We have a bearded collie and had a horrendous time when he was going through his mouthing stage. I was at my wits end with him but it did eventually pass. I found carrots worked, pop them in the freezer and then give him one to gnaw on.
Sounds like you're doing everything you can, consistency is key. If it carries on then I'd definitely be contacting the breeder.
Good luck!

I’m going to try the frozen carrots and the big soft toy that someone suggested. Will go charity shop shopping tomorrow.
I’m also going to try crating her more from now on so she actually gets some sleep.
So maybe 2 hours out of her crate and then 1 hour in there. See if that improves the biting and bad behaviour!

Oh poor you!!

I could have written this post a few years ago about our lab. We had to throw away so many clothes that were just ripped to shreds.

And I vividly remember calling DH at work in tears telling him to come home as I couldn't cope.

It does get easier!!! I remember we were sat watching a film with DDog between us sleeping and DH asked when the last time I'd been bitten was-I couldn't remember! We realised it had just suddenly eased off

When he loses his puppy teeth (should be in next 8 weeks) it will also get easier as he's teething at the moment

I agree with others who say it isn't aggression and is normal (at least in my experience!). Frozen carrots, quiet time and ignoring when biting are all good things to enforce. And I also think when you get out walking that will help

There is a general puppy support thread ongoing in the Dog House section so is get myself on there too and you'll see you're not alone!!

Good luck 🐶🐶

I bloody hope it gets better!
Will just keep at it.
Thanks all.

I have no more advice to give than you have already received here but you have my sympathy!

I have a springer/cocker cross and my god he was hard hard work for the first year, he was hideously bitey, maybe not quite as bad as yours but not far off and I definitely remember it feeling dreadful at 13 weeks.

I felt chained to the house too, and also felt awful for my kids as our lives revolved around the dog. I used to go upstairs and cry about what my life had become!

It did get better, he is now 4.5 years old and gorgeous. Absolutely soppy and as gentle as can be, superb loving temperament and amazing with the kids. He has never, ever displayed even a second of aggression in any situation.

I would say the biting calmed (didn’t entirely stop but was more manageable) at about 5 months - I know that will feel ages away now but it will pass quickly.

Wishing you the best of luck!

And actually my MiL has just arrived who DDog loves and all I can hear downstairs is 'down DDog, stay down...yes I know you're excited but calm down....no, don't rub the ball on my leg...no, you can't sit on me...(strained voice)...you're...too...heavy....please don't lick my face'

So I guess some puppy behaviour never goes away!!

(And before anyone jumps in, he doesn't do this with strangers and is particularly affectionate to MIL who he adores!)

Exactly the same as PP, one day I thought oh he hasn’t bitten for a while? And that was that, things were just better. But it’s hideous whilst it’s going on!!

Ours was fairly similar; a springer too. We did clicker training as she needed more stimulation coming from a working background- she just needed a job to do and if left alone she would run rampage. She picked it up very easily just basics like sit, stay, lead on, roll over, lie down and paw. Also the no biting command for when she was going to mouth something. she had a lot of treats as we did this. Our toddler loved helping to clicker train her.

If she was exceptionally hyper we would put her in the hallway for a few minutes then let her straight back in.
I generally don’t use the crate as isolation punishment as it’s their safe space. A few moments out the room is all they need generally.

You need to offer something more fun or stimulating than mouthing which for a high energy working dog is hard; especially if she’s not able to go outside for walks. We took ours everywhere, pet stores, relatives houses, on buses, the park, in cars and even to dog friendly pubs to get her exposed to as much as possible. Even before we could put her down we just carried her instead. We trimmed her fur, brushed her teeth, cut her nails and cleaned her ears regularly. She even went to the groomers for puppy washes to get her used to it. They say after 16 weeks it’s harder to introduce something new so you have a short window to expose them without fear. We can take ours anywhere now, she has even been on holiday with us, and she socialises with other dogs and people very well. The only issue which we haven’t been able to fully solve is jumping on people she greets. But all this stimulation would wear her out.

We also found large antlers from pets at home were an essential as it was a safe thing she could chew on that was hard. You can get them behind the counter usually as you have to ask for them. She still has them now to chew on

The best thing we ever bought was a bell for the door with regards to weeing. It’s a long line with bell attached you put in the door handle. When they want a wee they ring the bell. You start by letting them out every 15-20 minutes for a wee and when you do you ring the bell; eventually they associate the bell with going for a wee and ring it themselves. We never had accidents after when she could tell us she wanted to go out no matter where we were in the house. If we go away with her we take the bell.

You need to get really consistent.

Every time she bites, remove her from what she wants to play with (ie you) with a firm no! the hall area you have set up sounds perfect, try this to stop the biting the walls www.amazon.co.uk/Simple-Solution-Chew-Stopper-500/dp/B00QTKL162/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=no+bite+spray+for+dogs&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1546338979&sr=8-14
Then let her back in after a few minutes. The removal has to be immediate and every time.

What are you doing with regards to brain training? I agree I don't like to have my pup in the crate too much during the day, but they need calm quiet time. Start doing puppy training games. You can get various commands 'Sit', Lie, Come quite easily with intelligent dogs like a springer. Do little periods of 10/15 minutes of really working her brain. I think there's a FB page with lots of suggestions.

It may also be worth investing in a black kong. Fill it with pups food and a little water and freeze it. This will keep them occupied for hours.

You can also wet a towel, knot it and freeze it. It's really soothing on their teeth.

Quite normal for an excitable springer. The fact there teeth are like needles at that age makes it seem worse.
It does get better though, they are very excitable, energetic and intelligent dogs. Try tiring it out with some mental games and training. Be firm and consistent. Good luck, but please ignore the posters saying this isn't normal and to rehome the dog. By all means contact the breeder for support, they will give you some good tips.

I'll also second the antlers. 45 minutes of pure peace the first time Billypup had one. Get the half split antler to start with, we've just progressed to a full one. (bit of trivia there's a $10000 fine for removing an elk antler from a Canadian national park so buy one don't forage )

Puppy biting is awful I feel your pain :(
However this is normal puppy behaviour, lots and lots of training! Training will Also make her tired. Give her a frozen raw carrot to chomp on when she’s going into a mad frenzy doesn’t matter if she doesn’t eat it she can destroy it and it can be hoovered up if necessary. She’s not able to go for walks yet but it’s good to get into a routine now with her so maybe pop her lead on and rather than throwing a ball round walk her round the garden like a walk take some treats out and train her to walk to heel or sit whilst walking however you want her to behave when your out start it now. After that she’ll need a nap, if she’s happy in her crate I’d sugggest crating for a nap and cover the crate with a blanket leaving one side open, you could well time to your advantage and and have 1-1 time with your children. If she’s unhappy in the crate then you’d need to work on crate training properly.
Do you have Facebook? There’s a very good group ran by professionals called dog training advice and support there’s tons of files available to read and they’re very helpful.
Positive reinforcement is the best way, reinforce the behaviour you want her to display rather than punishing the bad behaviour.
Good luck!

I was exactly the same when our Ddog was a pup. Endless hours of googling, visits to the vet, tried everything and thought he was going to be an aggressive dog. Then all of a sudden it stopped and I can’t even quite recall when. Kong toys are good or ice cubes to distract them but it does pass!

What are you doing in terms of training? If she comes from a working home there is a good chance she is bright and will welcome a job to keep her occupied. You can also work a lot on 'leave it' and use it when she bites. Another thing to try is to go straight into training, doing sits, downs, target, leave it, etc. as soon as she gets too excited. This teaches her to channel her energy.

I see you mention toys but do you give her things to chew? Mouthy puppies need a small fortune in chews, they just need to have things in their mouth and to be chewing them. There are millions of options in pet shops, try different ones and keep changing them.

You also need to take her out and about, both for socializing and to keep her brain interested.