New puppy viewing

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Posted a few times on here, from our dog being put to sleep a few months ago, to husband being adamant he never wanted another, to wanting to find a crossbreed pup but only finding back yard breeders selling them!
Anyway... we have finally found a little of purebred pups that we have all as a family decided on.
They’re coming micro chipped, and K.C. registered, but not vaccinated.
They come with a period of free insurance, food, bowls, toys, puppy pads etc.
We are viewing them tomorrow.
What else do I need to ask?
I’ve asked where they live now and it’s in the house, they’re used to kids, other dogs etc.
The breeder has 4 bitches and they each have a litter a year with 2 studs. All of them live with the breeder. All health checked and have been breeders for 15 years.
What else do I need to ask/look for when we visit.
Not asked about dew claws, should these have been removed? My old rescue dog fractured both dew claws as a puppy and had an op to remove them.

My first, and major question would be why are they offering puppies for sale so close to christmas?

Will they be ready before christmas? Huge, huge, huge indicator of unethical breeding.

The breeder i got mine off breeds for her own show purposes. Her bitches have an absolute maximum of two litters in their lifetime, then they are neutered.

The breeder has 4 bitches and they each have a litter a year with 2 studs. All of them live with the breeder.
I would be walking away! 4 litters a year with no thought to stud dog s they only use the same two? That isnt responsible or ethical breeding.

So they’re 12 weeks old.
So the breeder wanted them to go 4 weeks ago, but due to family illness etc they’ve hung onto them for another 4 weeks as breeder hasn’t been around to sort them going to new homes. Apparently been in hospital so they’ve had a pet sitter there.
Looks genuine as there’s 4 out of a litter of 6 still remaining and apparently the other 2 went in the last few days.

Plus if they are breeding that many times with that many bitches they need a licence under the new regulations

That’s far too many litter per bitch. It’s a business. The health of dogs comes second to money. How did you find this person? Do you know what health tests should be done on the parents before breeding?

They only use the same 2 studs as there’s been no health problems in the litters they’ve produced apparently.
Does this sound wrong?

and why they’re there at 12 weeks? Sounds like a convenient lie.

They’re registered with the local council.
Also registered as home boarding and kennels.

They only use the same 2 studs as there’s been no health problems in the litters they’ve produced apparently.
Does this sound wrong?
Yes, whats the co efficiency of the breeding and whats the reason for their breeding pups? This is so very wrong

I would ask if they have been inspected for their license.
All breeders who breed 3 litters or more a year need to be licensed from January 1st. This means she'll have been inspected by a vet, or will be in the next couple of weeks.
If she knows nothing of it, she is no better than a back yard breeder and you should walk away.

and they board?> So whos been looking after the boarders if they have been in hospital? A convenient lie. They really do sound like puppy farmers

They don’t breed more than 3 litters a year so not sure if they’ve been inspected?
He told me they are registered with the local council.

Registered with the council means very little. Did you find them online?

Puppy farmers can be registered so long as they buy a licence. They shouldnt be churning out pups with the same 2 stud dogs with no thought to the breeding.

This is a money making scheme.

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/health/for-breeders/dna-screening-schemes-and-results/dna-screening-for-breeds-s-z/spaniel-cocker-dna-screening/

please check the link for health testing. They should have done this and it should be recorded on KC paperwork

If they were breeding to better the breed, the best studs to suit these bitches is highly, highly unlikely to be the dogs they happen to own, that's not how good breeders do it.

There's a massive red flag about the age of the dogs too, if they have kept them till 12 weeks they should all had their vaccinations and lots of outside, individual socialising like they would have had in private homes.

This sounds like a front for a puppy dealer, best avoided.

All litters from all bitches have been free from health problems. That’s why they’ve not deviated from the bloodline much.

Honestly, this sound so much like a 'convenient truth' it would make me suspicious. Convenient as in, isn't it convenient that thier 3/4 bitches all produce such healthy puppies they are bred every year to maximise profit

However, other things to check:

• look up the recommended health tests for cockers and ensure you have seen the results of both parents for all tests. I could see battendog's parents (and grandparents) on the KC website, for e.g.
• understand why they matched the parents together - what were they hoping to achieve. There are a few 'right' answers but I'd be looking for one that demonstrated a clear understanding of both dogs and what ways they could compliment each other to produce better offspring. In all honesty, I think they are matching these bitches and dogs just because they are the ones they have which, imo, is not good enough. Not least because it means these two males are producing large numbers of offspring and are, therefore, over represented in the gene pool. Easily 100 puppies each. Syringomyelia in Cav King Charles is traced back to a single individual who was allowed to sire far more litters then he should have.
• understand what the puppy comes with, in terms of support. Hint, a lifetime of support plus a condition that the dog MUST be returned to the breeder if your circumstances change.
• Raising in a home is good (for dogs that will later go on to live in homes) but more important is what the breeder does with them during that time. Look for one that exposes the dogs to a range of experiences - children, other dogs, hoovers, wachine machines, different types of people, cars etc. Plus basic training, sits, toilet training for e.g.

This is not an exhaustive list, but just a few things that jumped out at me or I haven't seen mentioned yet.

What a complicated back story as to why they’ve not been homed by 12 weeks . The problem with them leaving this late is by the time they’ve been vaccinated and are allowed out they’ll have missed valuable socialising time.

Tbh I got my puppy from a breeder that many MNetters would probably find questionable but I met her and liked her and she had an extensive FB history that showed the mother from when she was a puppy and that the breeder was devoted to the breed and had been for years. When I went to her home the dogs were clearly entrenched there and seemed to come before all other occupants so I went for it and I don’t regret it. But what you describe is concerning, too many red flags and I am not sure I would go ahead if I were you.

Right I’ve investigated the address.
It’s an £800,000 house.
There’s a registered dog kennels on site and they’re registered for home boarding.
I’ve seen the K.C. paperwork.
The breeders name is different to the owners name on there?
The owner is the name given to me by the person I’m buying the pup from.
I can’t see anything on the certificate re health checks?

Just saw this:

So they’re 12 weeks old.
So the breeder wanted them to go 4 weeks ago, but due to family illness etc they’ve hung onto them for another 4 weeks as breeder hasn’t been around to sort them going to new homes. Apparently been in hospital so they’ve had a pet sitter there.

This is bs. I'd bet everything I own on it. The puppies most formative weeks - the weeks that have THE greatest impact on the types of dogs they grow up to be - have been left in the hands of a 'sitter. I don't believe it.

I think these dogs are a bit older because they've been shipped in. Honestly, I do.

Good breeders do not leave it until the dogs are almost ready to go before sorting new homes. They have them sorted WAY in advance - like, before the bitch is even pregnant in many cases.

Raising puppy litters is a full time job - literally 24/7 for the first few weeks (sleeping in the same room as the litter). There would be no time for boarding and kenneling.

How come the owners name is on the K.C. paperwork if they’ve been shipped in?

It comes down to this, OP (at least to me).

Cockers are a popular breed. There are tons of breeders out there to choose from. Why pick one that you are not 100% sure of?

OP puppy farmers dont just live in shitholes or the back of beyond. An £800,000 house means nothing (though could be indicative of puppy farming income). You buyt the pup but dont come moaning on here when its got all sorts of socialisation or health problems. Did the KC paperwork make reference to the health tests in the links I posted or are they referring to a vet check which means sweet FA?

I can’t see anything about health checks on the K.C. paperwork.
I’ll look tomorrow when I see them.
They’ve had vet checks, micro chipped, flead, wormed, come with insurance, breeder says they will always be on hand to help.
They have 15 years breeding experience (can’t remember exact amount but it was a lot!)
They are K.C. registered.
They are registered with the council, the house is nice in a nice area.
The pups have been bought up in the home with children.
They have been taken on short car journeys.
Negatives - some people say too many litters? I need to ask about health checks.
Anything else I need to enquire about?