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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Behaviour changes after neutering?

42 replies

whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 10:06

Hi, my vet has advised me to neuter my 9mth old male gsd, to curb his aggression.
I am reading conflicting advice on this online, so was wondering if anyone here had any personal experience of this working, or making it worse?
I’d be grateful to hear any anecdotal evidence either way please!

OP posts:
Idolikeanicepieceofcake · 23/10/2018 10:17

It's a hard decision to make isn't it? I would say it depends on why he's being aggressive, if he's anxious/scared then I don't think that neutering will necessarily help. It's possible that if it's dominant aggression that reducing his testosterone may help. I have never had any of my dogs neutered (show dogs), there were two that were aggressive when I got them and it was all due to nervousness and after training they were excellent dogs.
If you do get your dog neutered (and I don't think there's anything wrong sifh neutering) then I would also get a behaviourist in once he has recovered.

tabulahrasa · 23/10/2018 10:26

Who have you seen about his behaviour? Other than the vet I mean.

We tried neutering after seeing behaviourists and a behavioural specialist vet, on the basis that what we were dealing with wasn’t fear aggression so less testosterone wouldn’t make it worse... it didn’t, it didn’t make anything any better either though.

Original poster
whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 10:47

Thanks for the responses.
We have seen a behaviourist, and it’s not fear-based, it is dominance.
I could go down the behaviorist route, yes, but it would take some time, and my main issue is that he has my other dogs creeping around in fear of him launching a seemingly random attack. So I am hoping for a quick fix that I appreciate may not exist.
I can manage his behaviour out of the home, and I’m happy to do so, but when he’s starting to attack other pets, it’s a bit more difficult.
Another issue is that he is random in his attacks on my other dog, so difficult to demonstrate to the behaviourist.

OP posts:
Original poster
whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 10:50

Also wanted to add that we attend breed specific training classes, and he’s exemplary in his basic obedience (although I do say so myself!), if that’s relevant.

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tabulahrasa · 23/10/2018 10:57

Like I said, it didn’t make any difference with my dog...he was older than 9 months though.

I’d be a bit worried tbh that you’d be raising the odds of health issues by neutering him so young - and if it doesn’t help, it would have been for nothing.

Sorry, that’s probably not that helpful, as it’s just fairly random musings, lol.

But being honest, I’d be really wary of neutering a large breed dog right as they’re adolescents.

Original poster
whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 11:00

I hear what you’re saying. That’s my dilemma, I was going to wait til he was at least two, but I’m trying to balance the needs of my other dog too...
I agree, it would be awful to have him done and it didn’t even help 😐

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Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten · 23/10/2018 11:04

Nope nope nope nope nope.Change your vet and change your behaviourist!

The ONLY behaviour that neutering might change is scent marking nothing else - I will try and find the study when I get home for you to read.

Dominance is NOT a thing in dogs and 99.9% of aggression will be fear based some may be pain induced etc. If you have a behaviourist spouting dominance save your money and move on - they are not qualified.

GSD are intelligent and actually can be quite sensitive dogs in some cases and often show reactive behaviour -careful management can help and often sort this out.

If you want to pm me your area I can send you some qualified behaviourists who can help you and Do not neuter until at least 18 months personally I would wait until 2 years. Otherwise you will still have a reactive dog but with joint and physical issues as well

Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten · 23/10/2018 11:06

You will just have to keep your dogs apart for the time being - there will be no quick fix to this and in some instances there is never a fix.

What age and sex are your other dogs?

He will not be attacking at random there will have been subtle signs before he attacks.

Can you describe an attack? where it happened and what the dogs were doing

Original poster
whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 11:10

Thanks Valhalla, I often read your advice, and appreciate it! Out at mo, but will give more info later.

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MemoryOfSleep · 23/10/2018 11:12

Disagree with PP, dominance is definitely a thing with dogs! They're a pack animal and seek to establish a hierarchy. My aunt lost a dog when her aggressor attacked it. Injuries were too severe and it had to be put down. Dominance motivated aggression is driven by testosterone (in dogs as it is in men). If it is dominance it should curb the behaviour. Did for our rottweiler. Wasn't a need with any of the others though.

Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten · 23/10/2018 11:23

Sorry MEmoryofSleep dominance theory is totally debunked in dogs have a quick google if you want to know more and why.

NewYoiker · 23/10/2018 11:33

If dominance theory is debunked why do Male dogs hump?

NewYoiker · 23/10/2018 11:34

Oops ended too soon. Why does my neutered older dog feel the need to hump other Male dogs? It's the one thing I'd change about him!

BruegelTheElder · 23/10/2018 11:39

This page has good info onhumping: www.dogster.com/lifestyle/why-do-boy-dogs-hump-other-boy-dogs

adaline · 23/10/2018 14:01

If dominance theory is debunked why do Male dogs hump?

Excitement, frustration, boredom...

Female dogs do it too!

adaline · 23/10/2018 14:04

They're a pack animal and seek to establish a hierarchy.

With other dogs maybe, not with humans! They're not stupid, they know we're not dogs! Dogs have no need to establish any kind of hierarchy within their family.

They want to sleep on sofas and beds because it's comfortable, and it's where there humans are. It's nothing to do with them wanting to be dominant. They don't want to get up again because they don't want to lose their warm, comfy spot, not because they think they're superior to us!

Our dog sleeps in bed and on the sofa. He gets up with an "off" command. There's no growling or aggressive behaviour. At first we lured him with food and a house-line, now he just responds to the command. He's not trying to dominate us because he wants to be comfortable!

Wolfiefan · 23/10/2018 14:05

Yep dominance theory is garbage.
I wouldn’t want to neuter such a large dog so young. It may have no effect on behaviour at all.
Find a better behaviourist! Walk in safe spaces or on lead. Avoid triggers.
If, when he’s mature, you still want to neuter maybe consider the implant first. Not irreversible.

Veterinari · 23/10/2018 14:16

Neutering is not a behavioural panacea. It will ONLY influence behaviours influenced by testosterone. Eg it can reduce male-male competitive aggression as this is driven by testosterone. It also influences fear aggression as testosterone confers confidence, and so can worsen fear aggression once testosterone levels fall.
It will not affect learned or highly motivated behaviours.

Who is he directing aggression to and in what context?
What qualifications did your behaviourist have? If they’re talking about dominance i’d Be highly suspicious that they are not well trained in behaviour.

Original poster
whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 14:35

The aggressive behaviour that I would hope to prevent by neutering is towards my 5-year old spayed Golden Retriever bitch.
I appreciate that there probably is a trigger, but it’s not at all obvious, other than that I am there. ie my dog boarder reports no issues when both dogs are with her. She has sent me footage of them walking happily together in her care.
I cannot walk them together, but I can manage that with separate walks.
My concern is that he is now launching seemingly unprovoked attacks when we are at home, and as a consequence my golden will not go out into the garden if he’s there. She sticks close to me indoors, but her whole body language is hunched and fearful, which is sad to see.
Other info is that he struts about like a peacock, barging her out of his way if she’s in it. If she is lying on the sofa, he will literally go and sit on top of her. He will turf her off her bed to lie on it himself.
Obviously I am correcting his behaviour, but I want my Golden to be happy.
They are obviously never left alone together.

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NewYoiker · 23/10/2018 15:04

@adaline it's in a really specific environment 😳 he only tries to hump an entire male border terrier at the local pub. No other dog gets this special attention. I'm obviously keen to stop it!

It started when Hugo was humped by the other dog when Hugo had an ear infection a few months ago, he now tried to have a go every time we meet this dog!

NewYoiker · 23/10/2018 15:04

Sorry I overtook the thread!

Greyhorses · 23/10/2018 15:28

Personally in a situation like this I would neuter as it’s ruling out any testosterone fuelled behaviour. Everyone has different opinions however I have had lots of large breed rescued males that were neutered early whilst in rescue and none have had any adverse effects.

I would be very concerned about this behaviour at home though and I do think you need to have a think about how awful it must be for the golden living like this- maybe both would be happier as only dogs?

Original poster
whateveryousay · 23/10/2018 15:47

Thank you Greyhorses, however there is no way I will rehome either of my dogs. Not a chance. I am prepared to go to whatever lengths necessary to sort this out, even if it means they are never in the same room ultimately.
Luckily the layout of my home means this is very possible, if not ideal.

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YuhBasic · 23/10/2018 15:49

If your behaviourist is saying it’s dominance then they’re crap. Find a decent one.

radioband · 23/10/2018 15:52

We had a dog that was reactive to other dogs, we got him neutered to try and help this behaviour, it had no effect whatsoever except when he was recovering from the op. I'd never seen him so well behaved in the vet waiting room.