"Your dog should be Terrified of you" - Please help me with this argument!

[MyDogNeedsaLawyer]

I have a 12 month old German Shepherd. On the whole, his behaviour is good - he has good recall about 70% of the time, he's well socialised with people and dogs, no aggression, no nerves, a happy dog.

He is boisterous and highly strung - liable to jump up at people, and has zero recall if he sees another dog to play with. I'm working on it hard with lots of positive reinforcement, practising recall constantly, and using a halti collar to control him to prevent him from running up to other dogs.

I've just had an argument with a family member who told me my dog should be terrified of me.

He was in the garden, he looked up and woofed at a passerby, so I told him a stern no, then told him to sit, lie down and then I praised him and gave him a treat. She told me this was wrong, because I was praising him for woofing at the passerby. I tried to explain that what I had done was told him to do something, he did it, and I was praising him for that. She couldn't see that.

She said that I should give him a good hiding, and he ought to obey me because he "should be terrified of me".

I tried to explain that teaching a dog to fear you doesn't work, and that positive reinforcement is the training method that is used by all the expert dog trainers. But I struggle to make the argument in the face of her stubborn insistence that she is right..

Please can someone help me to make the argument - my dog should not be terrified of me, and that is absolutely not the way to get him to do what he is told?

I quickly gave up on the argument and walked out... but not before we argued for a while.

We had this discussion because my dog uttered a tiny 'woof' at a passerby, I told him No, Sit, Lie down then praised and rewarded him. She told me I was wrong for rewarding him for woofing - so I tried to explain to her that was not what I was doing.

Then she launched into me that my dog should be terrified of me, and that his behaviour recently when he escaped my parent's garden and wouldn't come back was terrible, and he should 'drop in fear' at the sound of 'an angry voice'.

She said that 'lots of people' have said what he needs is a good hiding.

I disagreed and I left.

A frightened dog is an unpredictable dog.

Thank god this person doesn't own one.

Bad poster but I have not read the whole thread BUT there is some confusion here on what I have read.

Punishment appears to work - and it can work quickly(hang on don't shoot me!) eg dog wees in the house owner shouts and hits dog. The dog is unlikely to wee in front of the owner in the house again BUT what the dog will do is still wee in the house but when the owner can not go crazy and hurt it. The dogs stress levels go up and the dog needs to wee more in the house but never wees in front of owner has the punishment worked?

Think of the example on this thread dog jumps up gets a horrid smelll and taste - will that dog ever be able to be taught a recall? No when I go near my owner I get a horrid taste and smell - I am staying away.-clever dog

There are two types of punishment negative punishment and positive punishment. Aversion is punishment.

Positive punishment is when something is added eg dog jumps up and you knee them in the chest. You have added the unpleasant knee in the chest to stop the behaviour. The are receiving a punishment for the behaviour

The dog pulls on the lead you pull the choke chain tight around their neck .

The dog jumps up at you and gets a mouthful of aversion spray is also positive punishment.

The problem with this type of punishment is that the dog has no control and will get incredibly stressed and will possibly try to continue the behaviour as they are unsure what it is doing the vicious cirlcy continues stressed dog and more angry owner who has to up the anti. Choke collar did not work so now I will move to a shock collar or pinch collar

Negative punishment is removing something.

Dog jumps up you walk out of the room
Dog pulls on the lead you stop walking

However dogs are brainy clever things - they work better when they are thinking. It is now unarguable that dogs will repeat rewarded behaviour - end of no discussion on this it is science!

So if you reward the behaviour you want not punish the behaviour you dont want I promise you will have success. That is the way dogs work.

So jumping up - what would you rather the dog did? Keep four feet on the ground great how can you achieve that,?

Maybe throw threats on the floor as the dog approaches,it is hard to jump up if your nose is on the ground, reward the dog for the correct behaviour and they will quickly learn and repeat this behaviour

Dog barks at a stranger go further away from the scary stranger and reward when not barking - easy

Dog training is not rocket science

Decide what behaviour you do want and reward it

Control and prevent the behaviour you do not want

Job done

I think this idea is caused by your dog being a GS and the association in peoples mind with guard dogs and service dogs. I bet she wouldnt say the same things about a yorkshire terrier or a greyhound, yet all dogs are best trained in much the same way. People think you need a sort of 1940s boot camp mentality to train large guarding breeds. Even though this is not how modern service or security dogs are trained. Whats more your dog is a family pet so you only want to work on socialisation and basic obedience. More than anything you want a gentle, friendly dog that is good around people.

No it really isn't rocket science.

One thing my dog used to do was lunge at passing motorbikes; rewarding behaviour for her as she'd lunge and the motorbike would run away.

No need for yelling or fear, or aversive sprays. I just got her to focus on me at the right time and treat her for the focusing behaviour. Motorbikes suddenly weren't so interesting and after a while we didn't even need the treats.

We're currently working on a similar thing with cats - the behaviour started more recently. We can now walk past most cats - ginger ones are particularly okay - without her turning a hair.

It really is that simple, at least with my dog, who I got as a small puppy and obviously didn't come to me with any pre-existing problems. Although, obviously dogs with problem should be trained in the same way, it might just be more tricky.

I've never shouted at her, ever. She's well trained, happy and friendly and knows she can trust me implicitly.

Reward, reward, reward. Works every time.

Anyone who thinks dogs need to be yelled at, beaten or cowed knows nothing about dogs and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near them.

Op, I suggest joining Dog Training Advice and Support on facebook. Lots of info on positive training and also why aversives/saying no don't work.

I've always had GSD's too and they respond really well to positive training. They are super intelligent and sensitive souls, loyal 'till the end.

P.S and tell your family member to educate herself or STFU. Preferably both.

My dog loves me and he tries to please me. This is why he does what I ask (some of the time!) He is also 7 months old so he is still a baby and quite often can be very distracted or just too excited to even hear my command. We keep working on it together and I am confident he will eventually do what I ask all of the time.

A scared dog is an aggressive dog. I don't want him scared of me I want him devoted to me!

Hitting children or animals in an attempt to get them to do what you want is the action of someone both cruel and stupid. As I am neither I train my dog through positive reinforcement.

Thank you - I believe in those principles too.

My boy is doing really well, I've ramped up the training, we play games throughout our walks now, with a bag of treats and lots of fuss as rewards. He's really bright, so he LOVES it.

I just need to persevere and let his behaviour speak for itself