My dog bit my child, not dogs fault.

[CollyWombles]

She is okay first off, cut her lip a little and just under her eye, gave her a terrible fright. She is 13 and for some unfathomable reason, blew on his ear.

My dog is a rescue. I got him when he was 10, he is now 13. He has never been a huge fan of the children, however he has never bit any of them. The children have all been brought up to be respectful towards dogs and respectful to him in the three years he has been with us. I cannot think why she took the notion to do that.

My stance is that he bit for a reason. It wasn't unprovoked. My husband however, wants my dog put to sleep. My daughter does not want the dog in the house.

I adore my dog, he isn't everyone's cup of tea, he had it rough and I think how he has come on is amazing. I don't think he deserves to lose his home, or his life for biting for a reason.

In the same breath, my children come before any dog and it feels like I can't win no matter what I do. I'm either a bad parent or a bad dog owner. Please help me work out what is the right thing to do for my dog and also for my family.

I'm glad you're keeping him and that your DD obviously realised she did the wrong thing.

Coss post. That's good to hear OP. You may find in the next few weeks everyone will forget about the incident and things will be as normal.

Have the kids rehomed. Maybe DH could leave and take them with him. Then it would be just you and the dogs.
Everyone will be much better off.

I don't think the 13 year old is scared. She's ashamed and embarrassed and like most 13 year olds would, lashing out to deflect attention from her stupid behavior. In a few days she will have new drama to focus on.

I agree with Frequency, your daughter know that she did a stupid thing to the animal and is trying to put all the blame on the dog.
She should be told that what happened was because of her actions and to stop pretending to be scared of the dog. If she treats the old dog with respect it will not happen again.

X post

The best decision you could have made OP

So, you have had the dog 3 years?

The dog was with you before your DH? Was a constant companion/support/friend to you as a lone parent. Has never shown any aggression to your children before?

You and dog are very bonded? He's your shadow. Are other family members OK with this?

Your 13 year old DD (13 not 3) blew in dogs ear and startled the dog. Hopefully she won't make that mistake...with any dog...again.

And your DH is immediately saying the dog should be put to sleep. How does your DH normally appear to get on with the dog? Does he like the dog?

Your DD is agreeing with your DH. She's hurt, been scared and wants to punish dog. She also knows what she did was stupid. Teenagers hate being made to look stupid. She will get over it.

Your other children don't want dog PTS. Can you talk to all the children and explain what happened and that they must treat the dog with respect. Even the 8 year old must understand that.

Sensible descision OP.

Stating that something isn't a dog's fault isn't anthropomorphism. Saying that a dog understands the concept of fault or feels guilt or whatever would be attributing human emotions/thought processes to them, but that's not the case here.

Blowing in a sleeping dog's ear is not a minor provocation. It's enough to startle many, if not most dogs. It would startle most people.

If I had a pound for every time I've heard someone say that they/someone they know had been bitten by a dog 'for no reason' I could have retired at 30. True idiopathic aggression is extremely rare, in every other case there is a trigger, the people involved just don't recognise it. Dogs vary hugely in personality and thresholds of behaviour, and they are affected by previous experiences etc. as well. Again, that isn't anthopomorphism, it's fact. What one dog enjoys/tolerates, might push another one over their threshold of tolerance, or something a dog might accept from their owner could stress or scare them if done by another person. The dog with the lower tolerance is not 'bad', they're just different and need to be respected and treated as such.

As said, dogs should not be expected to just passively tolerate being poked, prodded, startled out of sleep, trodden on, randomly touched by anyone at any moment etc. etc. Unfortunately though in many/most cases it's the humans who fuck up but the dog pays the price. If you are the kind of person who thinks that a dog should die because it reacted to mistreatment by a child or anyone else, then just don't have dogs. It's putting too great and unfair an expectation on them. Some may well live up to it, but that's as much luck as anything else, and it can change as they age or if they are unwell.

Hear hear!

I made a similar mistake with our family dog when I was 15 and she bit my nose! I was furious and demanded my parents got rid of her! They didn’t and 20 years later I’m so pleased they didn’t, she was a wonderful family dog and it was my mistake not the dogs, as a teenager it’s a good learning opportunity regarding dogs (and people’s) boundaries.

Well said, Vet.

Wise decision, OP, it’s good your DD realised she made a mistake.

VetonCall You make a strong argument. But don't you think it leads to the inexorable conclusion that you really shouldn't have dogs around young children? Or any children at all?

Well said Vet

Natalia I know your question was directed at the Vet but I will answer also.
Dogs have been our companions and protectors for thousands of years. They chose to live with human beings and they are "in tune" with us. They pick up signals from us that even humans cant. Vet can probably explain more fully.
Do you think that over all those thousands of years, we, human beings would let an animal live with us if it was intrinsically dangerous. No! We wouldnt!
Would we be using dogs now to assist people with disabilities or advising people with autistic children to get them! No! We wouldnt!
As I said before, they are out companions, protectors, helpers and it should be children who are taught how to behave around them.
Would it be acceptable to blow in an old Grannies ear and shock her when she was asleep? No! Everyone would be angry and disgusted!
Dogs in families should be given respect and children should be taught that.

But don't you think it leads to the inexorable conclusion that you really shouldn't have dogs around young children?

It means that parents need to keep an eagle eye on their children and never leave them together unattended. And be hot on dog safety - the warning signs, how to behave around dogs and how to treat them.

Dogs get fed up and snap just like humans do. But you see so many photos online of toddlers snuggling up to dogs who are clearly unhappy and stressed. Because the dog isn't snapping, the parents think it's okay/cute/acceptable. And so the behaviour continues until the dog gets so pissed off his growls/snaps/nips/bites and he gets PTS. When in fact, the parents should have watched the dogs reactions MUCH more closely.

Of course children are unpredictable but that's why you teach them the correct behaviour and never allow them to do things like disturb a sleeping dog, take their food/bones, put their faces near the dogs face, pull their tale or chase them around the house.

I think use your judgement. My mothers dog, but my dd on the face when she was only 2 years old. We were visiting for a few months. I was so angry at the dog, but I understood it was not his fault. Nor my dd. It was an unfortunate situation that happened when I was breastfeeding my ds at the time and putting him to bed. My dd left the room to go see grandpa in the other room. But she went downstairs and got on top of the dog when he was sleeping in his bed so he nipped her, just above the lip and there was a tiny blood (barely). She got more of a fright. We were very lucky it was nothing else. But anyways, my judgement was to be extra vigilant and keeping the dog in a separate room that my dd could not get into (huge house) while we stayed the rest of the trip (dog was let out for walks and toilet and room was a big one, so it was fine). Dog has never bitten anyone since and my dd is now 6 and still loves the dog whenever we go visit. Your dd is 13. She is old enough to know how to behave around dogs. What possessed her to blow in the dogs ear!?!?

Good decision op.
Glad your dd has accepted responsibility.

Fwiw my dd can laugh about the day ddog bit her now - in the sense that she would not have been best pleased herself to have had her foot squashed by a Heeley. And doesn't blame ddog at all.

Natalia no, I grew up with dogs myself and I think that growing up with dogs is one of the best and most rewarding experiences a child can have. But - and it's a big but - there have to be rules and boundaries in place and reasonable expectations of the dog. Dogs need to be taught good manners and equally so do the children. The dog must be respected and not expected to tolerate being pestered, poked etc. They need safe spaces they can go to to rest, eat or relax where they will be left in peace. This has to be an absolute rule and measures have to be taken to ensure that the children respect it. Obviously they need to be told it, but on top of that they should never be left unsupervised with the dog and doors/baby gates/playpens/crates can be used to create physical barriers.

Individual dogs have different levels of tolerance as I said previously. Some dogs are more suited to living with children than others, and that can apply to dogs bought as puppies as much as to rescue dogs. Of my own dogs, my eldest girl (now deceased), who I rescued aged 2 positively loved kids and was brilliant with them, whereas my male dog who I bought aged 8 weeks and is well socialised and well trained, tolerates them but is easily overwhelmed by them, so I don't ever put him in situations where he feels anxious because his threshold is much lower than my old girl's was.

It's vitally important that there must be a reasonable view of the dog's behaviour, so if you (the adult I mean) have the view that if the dog ever snaps or bites then it will automatically be 'get rid' or PTS regardless of the circumstances then no, you shouldn't have a dog. It's just not fair to expect a dog to never exhibit what really is normal canine behaviour and never react if they are hurt or scared, with the risk of such a heavy penalty if they do. If a dog reacts out of fear or pain that doesn't make it a dangerous dog, it makes it a scared or hurt one that was pushed over its threshold.

Owning a dog isn't a right, it's a privilege and a lifelong responsibility. They don't ask to be bought by us, they get no choice, so they deserve to be treated with the same care, respect and consideration for their physical and mental wellbeing and their safety as any member of the family. If you can't do that or it's 'just a dog' then don't have one.

I just read back a bit further, I'm glad you're not rehoming your old boy OP, much less having him PTS.

Also just saw this Once a dog has tasted blood he might attack again and wanted to say what a load of absolute bollocks it is. This is the kind of attitude I refer to as being unfair to the dog.

How do you know your dog doesn't like your children? He behaves aggressively towards them.

I disagree that this will be a one off. I genuinely hope I'm wrong and you don't live to regret your decision.

OP never mentioned that the dog was aggressive towards the children. She’s had him for three years, that’s plenty of time for her to get to know her dog.

Dogs can show you they don’t like someone in quite subtle ways. They won’t follow the person they don’t like around,they won’t come for a cuddle, they won’t present them with toys, they won’t come running to the door to greet them. None of this has s aggressive, but it makes the point nicely,

I was just about to write the same thing. It's not a bloody vampire!!
OP I bet you're really glad you asked for advice just to get judged and attacked by some of the delightful posters on here!
Your daughter may be 13, but she is still a child and probably didn't even think before she blew on his ear. Sounds like he reacted in surprise, it wasn't a calculated attack.
Personally I would ask for help as people have suggested but it doesn't sound to me like he needs putting to sleep. Perhaps just a little more caution going forward.
I hope you and your family are ok, this must be very stressful for you xx

Yes I do know my dog, inside out. I know what he doesn't like and I know what he does. I know why he reacts in the ways he does. And I know in three years whilst he has never cuddled up to my children, he has always accepted them .

I'm actually very glad I posted here. It made me more determined to fight for him. Dogs are not objects to get rid of or pass around when they don't do what they are expected to do. He had just reason to nip. He's already been let down by people before that think having a dog is like having a toy. I will not send him away or have him PTS for reacting on instinct to provocation and surprise.

My daughter is the one in the wrong. She is the one that is dealing with small cuts as a result. It has been an unpleasant lesson for her but a vitally important one. My dog showed amazing restraint considering blowing in the face is hated by most dogs. He could have left her face in pieces if he really wanted to. But despite being old, despite being asleep, despite his rocky background, he nipped her to warn her. She will know better next time to respect the dog, and he will respect her.

That's my final say on the matter, thanks for all thoughts and opinions.

Once a dog has tasted blood he might attack again are you willing to risk that

OMG my dog accidentally caught my foot whilst we both ran for the ball and tasted blood. I wonder if he's now sizing me up for dinner rolls around the floor as such a daft statement

Glad you have things sorted OP.

Good for you @CollyWombles and thank you for being a voice of reason @VetOnCall.