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The doghouse

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Original poster

When nipping becomes snapping becomes biting

40 replies

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:03

Some of you have already been incredibly helpful with sleeping issues and I am eternally grateful. I am now starting to panic about what is either a very serious issue that needs sorting now or is just a puppy phase that'll sort itself out with time and consistency.

Pup is coming up to 5 months. We have been reasonably consistent in trying to divert nips with toys wherever possible and removing him or ourselves if he continues to nip. He has had an ENORMOUS growth spurt over the last couple of weeks and now likes to charge towards the sofa, throw himself on it and use my arm or leg as a chew toy. Thankfully it's only me and not DS but it is quite scary and it hurts. I remove him but he will snap at me as I do so, sometimes maintaining a grip on my hand. He has not drawn blood but he's clearly cross and showing it.

If we are playing and he jumps up and nips we stop immediately and if he (some time later) shows great sitting, or gently paws for attention, I will give him a treat.

I suspect much of this is teething - I'm giving him numerous different chews, ice cubes and frozen treats, all the recommended stuff. But it's the snapping that's worrying me. I understand he's probably grumpy because his teeth hurt but I'm wondering if I should be doing something different/more or is this standard issue puppy stuff?

OP posts:

Aprilshouldhavebeenmyname · 31/05/2018 15:06

When our ddog decided the sofa was hers and growled at dd when she sat down she was banished to the floor and it hasn't happened since.

BiteyShark · 31/05/2018 15:10

Mine did this and at times I was really worried I was going to end up with an aggressive dog. However, he grew out of it so don't panic yet.

I would have to carefully grab him and push him out of the room or behind a baby gate at times, carefully avoiding the teeth (they don't call cockers cockerdiles for nothing ). So effectively he still got a timeout.

I also noticed it tended to happen more with DH because he wouldn't notice the biting/playing escalating where as I nipped (no pun intended) that behaviour quickly in the bud.

contrary13 · 31/05/2018 15:16

"... he's clearly cross and showing it"

This shouldn't be acceptable behaviour. You need to really make him understand - without violence, but you may need to raise your voice a little - that this isn't how life works, he's not in charge of you/the sofa, and you're in charge of him. For his own sake... not to mention your son's/other people/other dogs.

Will he be neutered? That might help when he's old enough, although I completely understand that not everyone thinks the same way - and in some instances, it doesn't "calm them down" at all. Other than really stepping up on his training/making him understand that he's not in charge, you are... I don't know. But to me, this doesn't sound like teething (you shouldn't know, outside of excessive chewing on their toys/bones, when they're teething), but a behaviour issue.

LilCamper · 31/05/2018 15:20

He isn't cross, he doesn't need to know who is in charge.

My 25 week old Lab does this to me. he is literally trying to engage me in play in the only way he knows how.

Get up and get him a toy and play with him.

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:20

How did you manage that @biteyshark? I have not managed to find a manoeuvre that I can carry out fast enough yet!

Pup is continually banished to the floor. Then he jumps up again and is more prepared for the next eviction. He is currently barking on the other side of the baby gate as I nurse another wound!

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Ithinktomyself · 31/05/2018 15:21

@Lilcamper - I get bitten when I'm trying to play with him. He is not a neglected pup. He is not playing. I have tried playing when he does this and he ignores it.

LilCamper · 31/05/2018 15:24

I am not saying you have neglected him. By getting up and walking away to find him a toy you are disengaging from him and breaking the cycle of behaviour to stop him forming a habit of it.

missyB1 · 31/05/2018 15:33

Personally I wouldn't reward this behaviour with a toy and playtime. You risk encouraging him to think this is how to get you to play.

I would go with Bitey's suggestion of time out, so he loses your attention and company when he snaps at you. How much exercise and training time is he getting? Is he bored?

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:36

Sorry @LilCamper - I'm a tiny bit sensitive about my puppy raising! Yes, I will try that. I have just allowed him back in (once he stopped barking and wandered off). I opened the gate after a good calm sit and we had a cuddle and a tummy rub. Then he walked over to the sofa and jumped up but settled himself calmly on a cushion without nipping at anyone or trying to walk across my head. I don't know if I'm sending mixed messages - I don't mind him being on the sofa if he is calm and not nipping.

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Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:39

Boredom is a bit of an issue as he has been housebound due to an injury for a while. I have been trying to do extra training and playing and we are back on short lead walks now. It's difficult to find things to do that won't result in more injuries!

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Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:41

Actually, thinking about it. We had a huge breakthrough the other day when he padded over to me with a toy in his mouth and dropped it politely at my feet. First time he's ever done that so I gave him tonnes of praise and a nice long playtime. Obviously he hasn't done it since!

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Wolfiefan · 31/05/2018 15:42

The advice for mouthing is always to have a toy to hand. Substitute what you don't want chewed for what you do.
Consider how you play. What can you do to minimise snapping. Give a toy. Throw a new one before you try and get the first one?
With the jumping teach four on the floor.
Brain games tire pups out.

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:43

Forgot to mention, he also snapped at the groomer - my fault, I know but I'm at a loss to work out how to move on. I will be muzzling him next time.

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Wolfiefan · 31/05/2018 15:46

Is he in any pain?
What breed is he?

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:47

Is this mouthing though? When it's done because something he doesn't like is happening (being removed?) I can't really insert a toy in his mouth when I'm trying to pick him up - it is a two handed job.

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Wolfiefan · 31/05/2018 15:56

Why are you picking him up?

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 15:59

To remove him from the sofa. Particularly if he has landed there and has made straight for my face or DS's toes.

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Wolfiefan · 31/05/2018 16:06

So keep him off all the time?
Throw a treat to get him off?
Use a slip lead?
If he's already excited and you put your hands on him mouthing is more likely.

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 16:17

Yes, you're right. Plus when he launches himself our reaction is usually pretty loud and excitable which doesn't help. I will try the treat option first of all.

He is now on the sofa, fast asleep and cuddled up next to me which, frankly, is what I bought him for in the first place so I guess he can stay there for the moment.

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Wolfiefan · 31/05/2018 16:19

Haha. I speak from the point of view of someone with a giant pup. She did draw blood as a pup and I couldn't lift her. Not a chance. Mine now sees the slip lead and knows it means time to move!

Scoopofchaff · 31/05/2018 16:26

It will be helpful to nip this behaviour in the bud way earlier by not letting him charge towards the sofa. (You don't want him doing this to visitors never mind yourselves, especially friends of ds. Especially as some dogs bite if a child mistakenly lifts or pushes them down and gets bitten in the process. And you don't want him charging through the house anyway if he is large!)

First you need to make a decision about whether you don't mind him on the sofa or chairs and if so, all of them, or just one? Then you need to stick to that decision consistently.

You then train him to politely ask to get up on the sofa (or his designated chair) before he does so, so you are putting controls in place way before the biting happens ifyswim.

This involves an extension of "sit" training so before he reaches sofa, you need to get him to look at you, slow him down, and sit on the floor. When he is totally still and calm and looking at you, if you are then happy for him to jump up, you pat the sofa or chairs. Vary it though, so sometimes he is allowed to get up, and sometimes he isn't. When he isnt, you can ask him to "lie down" on the floor, or if there is space, you can have a dog bed nearby which you can ask him to go to.

Once you have the politely "asking to get up on sofa" sorted, you can then train him the reverse manoeuvre ie you want him to get down using a one word command like "floor".

But first train him NOT to charge through the house and get him to look at you then sit. This can start right back at the beginning when letting him inside. Always instigate this yourself so he is not dictating when he comes charging through, you are.

Hope that makes sense! And I know it all sounds very stern and prescriptive, but he is a puppy and needs to be taught manners and that biting just not allowed. When he is older and he settles down, all of this will have become second nature hopefully!

Caaarrrl · 31/05/2018 16:28

A 'naughty lead' worked for our pup. He only needs to be shown the particular lead to know that he has to change what he is doing. We were very careful to never use that lead for walking or anything else though, only to make him sit down next to us if he had misbehaved.

Scoopofchaff · 31/05/2018 16:30

Sorry, took me so long to type that have x posts!

Agree with Wolfie NEVER lift or push a dog down from the sofa. They have to learn to get down themselves through commands (and possibly lead if necessary but even with lead it's better if they jump and you don't pull ifyswim).

Scoopofchaff · 31/05/2018 16:35

Argh

Cross - posted

And "better if they jump down themselves and you don't pull them down"

Original poster

OldEnglishSheepDog · 31/05/2018 16:42

@Scoopofchaff Getting him not to charge through the house is a work in progress! But I understand what you're saying. The lifting down has been a bit of a panic response I think because he's so excitable that I'm not sure what he's going to do so physically removing him strikes me as the safest option.

We have managed to get him to stop and sit politely a few times but it's not consistent. I think half-term has made this all so much more difficult because I have an unhelpful 5 year old who finds a mad pup hilarious.

Right - house entry is going to be more controlled. I may have to shut him outside if he is doing zoomies around the garden and then wait until he is calm to let him in. I shall treat lots of calm good behaviour and try to be consistent with only allowing him up if he has sat nicely. And I shall remove by throwing a treat on the floor or in his crate....

But he's not a vicious killer, right? Not going to rip my throat out in my sleep or anything?

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