When nipping becomes snapping becomes biting

[OldEnglishSheepDog]

Some of you have already been incredibly helpful with sleeping issues and I am eternally grateful. I am now starting to panic about what is either a very serious issue that needs sorting now or is just a puppy phase that'll sort itself out with time and consistency.

Pup is coming up to 5 months. We have been reasonably consistent in trying to divert nips with toys wherever possible and removing him or ourselves if he continues to nip. He has had an ENORMOUS growth spurt over the last couple of weeks and now likes to charge towards the sofa, throw himself on it and use my arm or leg as a chew toy. Thankfully it's only me and not DS but it is quite scary and it hurts. I remove him but he will snap at me as I do so, sometimes maintaining a grip on my hand. He has not drawn blood but he's clearly cross and showing it.

If we are playing and he jumps up and nips we stop immediately and if he (some time later) shows great sitting, or gently paws for attention, I will give him a treat.

I suspect much of this is teething - I'm giving him numerous different chews, ice cubes and frozen treats, all the recommended stuff. But it's the snapping that's worrying me. I understand he's probably grumpy because his teeth hurt but I'm wondering if I should be doing something different/more or is this standard issue puppy stuff?

Sorry just seen your message about how to manuver avoiding the teeth.

He was always on the floor at the time and I used to have to rescue DH by putting one hand each side of his shoulders but bending my elbows out of reach and carefully standing back and sliding him out the room (I have hard floors so sliding was easy). I fully appreciate you may not want to do that whilst he is mouthing snapping but I found a way of avoiding teeth but making the message clear that he was out the room everytime it happened. It helps if you can do this straight away when it crosses a line rather than waiting for it to escalate.

You could try the slip lead for off the sofa but once on the floor if he's still behaving the same you need to be able to keep him at a distance hence why stretched out arms on his shoulders meant I could handle him physically without hurting him or handling him in a way that was antagonistic.

Oh and my dog is the most submissive dog now. He has been handled and hurt for his own good so many times at the vets that whilst he doesn't like it he doesn't bite. Just because this is happening now doesn't necessarily mean an aggressive dog in the future. However, you do need to have a consequence for the behaviour and if he is like mine being outside the room or behind a gate away from you is the worst thing to happen so they soon 'get it'.

Mine has chewed my arm whilst running round a show ring
Jumped up to boob height, bounced off me and nearly knocked me flying.
Bit me and the kids and DH. Mouthing but those puppy needles did draw blood.
Scratched me
Bruised me.
All through excitement or over stimulation.
Now she's rapidly heading for 2. Often described as calm and cute!
It took bloody hard work, consistency, help of a trainer and a tonne of treats. But she's a delight to have around.
Good luck.

Completely understand about the half-term chaos OldEnglishSheepdog trying to get a puppy and a five-year-old to understand at the same time is very challenging indeed!

Good luck with it all.

And no, he won't become a vicious killer as long as you are calm and consistent and try and understand the motivations for his behaviour.

On Talking Terms with Dogs (Calming Signals) by Turid Rugass is very good on understanding dog behaviour.

Right, so since my last post I have made a solemn promise to myself not to pick up pup (unless he's actually chewing through DS's throat or some such) and have instead tried to be much more positive (by which I mean throw endless treats down his throat). I shall continue in this vein. I need to sort out the groomer thing - she did something that he didn't like and was the sort who ploughs on regardless because "he's got to learn". I felt that he was stressed and she should stop but frankly I don't know what I'm doing so I left her to it and she got nipped.

You need to find a groomer that does puppy sessions. So they don't actually groom them as such but get them used to the appliances, clippers etc for the first visit. Mine doesn't like his feet touching much and even now he sometimes comes out with them a bit uneven rather than upsetting him.

98% of dog training is preventing the behaviour you don't want.

So if the dogs mouths, bites when getting off the sofa give the dog a behaviour to do that means they can not mouth or bite. The easiest is food. If a dog is eating it cannot be mouthing you. So just pop a treat on the floor when you want the dog to leave the sofa -sorted To keep the calm behaviour and prevent the dog from jumping on and off the sofa drop random food treats on the floor when he is on the floor. Ideally this will build up to him being in the down position on the floor. No clickers ,no verbals just calm reward for the dog being calm on the floor. I love this kind of training you just have to relax on the sofa your self and drop food on the floor

Re the charging up to you when you are on the sofa - if you stand up as the dog begins to charge he will have no need to charge at you.

Snapping may be frustration - he will repeat behaviour that is rewarded. He wants rewards and he wants attention. So change the attention to calm behaviour and quickly he will learn this is what gets the good stuff. If he is 5 months I would use all of his meals as his treat allowance.

If he is a bit bored and on restricted exercise get his brain working, hide food in boxes,under furniture etc, Get a muffin cake tin and pop food in the sections and put balls on top -make him work for all his meals. It will tire him out and give you a bit of piece. I cannot recommend scent work enough for all dogs it has soooooo many benefits.

Teething is at its height at this age in a month this will be a distant memory and you will have moved onto the teenaged recall issues

Another really useful trick to have in your tool box is a positive interrupter. Just make any noise that is easy for you to make. I make a clicky kissy nose. Everytime I make the noise I give my dogs a treat. Soon it is a conditioned response to stop what they are doing and turn to me when I make the noise.

So even if (god forbid) your dog is hassling your DC's do the clicky noise and dog will run to you for treats. You will have treats in every pocket that you own for a short while

God I love puppies can I come and stay - I will throw in free training just to have time with your dog - realises that sounds a bit weird!

@Vallahalagonebutnotforgotten THIS is what I need to hear! Lots of excellent, positive training tips from someone who finds this fun. I keep forgetting to find it fun - I'm too busy panicking that I'm doing it wrong. I will follow your advice.

And you are very welcome to come and stay if you happen to be in Wiltshire! My DH would probably demand that you took pup home with you though.

I think you’re confusing him

He’s either allowed on the sofa or he isn’t

And ignore the ‘he has to learn’ advice. Find yourself a new groomer. I’d kick her off my dog if that was her attitude.

Leaping up off the sofa at the first sign of excitement is really useful. Also, turning away very fast and leaving. It's sort of like distraction. Basically pup never gets to do the naughty thing, so it breaks the habit. You may look a bit weird for a while, randomly changing direction and leaping up off the sofa, but it works!

The more training games you play, the more she will understand how to behave.

Also, I really recommend a house lead. It makes intervention so much easier- no need to grab at a whirling dervish of a dog, just get the lead and redirect her. Also if you see something exciting about to happen, you can quietly catch the lead so you are ready.

Mine still does this to me occasionally (he is considerably more than old enough to have stopped it) if he's over-stimulated, or frustrated or wants attention. I try and disengage - I stand up and turn my back on him, or leave the room, or if we're at training (prime over-excitement and frustration time) I clip his lead to the wall and go to the other end of the room and start doing something else. I'm pretty crap at doing this consistently but even so he has gradually got much better and now mainly directs his biteyness towards his long suffering friends Mr Squeaky Flat Alien and Mr Squeaky Snake instead.

Am seconding the find another groomer bit. Whilst he does have to learn that you're in charge of him, through training and positive reinforcement... he was obviously stressed and she should have stopped.

My aged spaniel hates his feet being touched - which makes clipping his claws an absolute joy! - and had a bad experience with a vet when he was 4, regarding the Kennel Cough vacine, which resulted in the vet being bitten. Not badly, but enough for the (male) vet to pompously declare that my dog (whose absolute best friend in the world is my father, closely followed by my son) "obviously hates all men". We found a new vet. One who was horrified and disgusted by the previous vet's treatment (he backed my dog into a corner, with his nurses pinning him tight... then covered his eyes - at which point my poor dog panicked, bit the vet, and I subsequently hit the proverbial roof!) and listened when I pointed out that there hadn't been a problem vaccinating my dog beforehand. There hasn't been one since, either, because our new vet takes her time, talks to my dog whilst she's dribbling the vaccine up his nostril(s), and then gives him more than a few treats after she's done. He loves going to see that vet... and, perhaps more importantly, I trust her not to hurt or frighten him (even when he had an operation a few years ago, her staff reassured him as they were clipping his fur and sliding the needle in to knock him out for a while - and he wasn't in pain afterwards, because he was bounding around like a puppy again!).

So, find another groomer. And train your pup so that he does respect your authority over him, and does what you want him to do, rather than the other way around.

VallahalagonebutnotforgottenGod - I love puppies can I come and stay - I will throw in free training just to have time with your dog - realises that sounds a bit weird!

I am the complete opposite! Reading this has made me remember the puppy phase and reaffirmed why I would never get another puppy
I had the naughtiest, snappiest, biggest, bounciest, cleverest little hooligan and it drove me to tears many times! And then he would snuggle up on the sofa with me and I would fall In love all over again. Luckily he has grown into a wonderful calm dog which has made up for all those months!

OldEnglishSheepDog - it does get better, I promise!

We had a charge / leap on sofa (DD head) phase. It was normally when he came in from the garden and he’d gallop through conservatory, kitchen and living room onto sofa and then onto whoever was sat there. Trainer recommended closing the doors and using treats and sit / wait command to make him pass through the doors calmly. A week of that really reduced it. He is 6 months old now and no longer tornadoes through downstairs sitting on peoples heads!