16wks - surely I should be allowed to sleep now?

[OldEnglishSheepDog]

I'm honestly at the end. Pup has slept through ONCE since we got him. When he wakes for a wee it can take an hour to resettle him. Much of the time I find myself sleeping on the sofa with him on my lap.

I'm currently stood in the living room afraid to move as he will start whining the moment I do. I am on the fb page everyone recommends and am following advice.

Can't fit crate upstairs so to be with him means being downstairs. Stopped bedding down on the sofa a couple of weeks ago as it felt like I was creating an expectation.

I have woken up in my own bed once since I got him. He is taken out around 10pm and settles reasonably quickly, it's when he wakes that us the problem.

Right now, despite all the planning, I am wishing we'd never got him. I am clearly incapable of looking after him and he can't be happy to be whining this much. It's not his fault but I don't know how to fix it.

You've got this, you are in charge.

Thank you! Why are you up?
The brief lull allowed dh to fall asleep. Pup started again but may be running put of steam. Oh, spoke too soon...
But he's quieter than he was.

Shit. Still going. Dh is really pissed off. Pup has stopped while I'm on the landing.

Still. Fucking. Going.

Don't give in now, you're almost there!

He has been barking all night. Literally. Am considering taking him for a 4.30 wee.

This no longer feels like the right thing to do.

This thread reminds me a bit of trying controlled crying with my children. With ds it worked very well and he soon settled and went off to sleep after minimal crying. With dd it quickly became apparent that it wasn't going to work. His two or three minutes scream, sob, thumb suck deep sleep compared to her steady crying for what felt like hours with sleep no where in sight. So we gave up and dh jiggled her to sleep for a few months. Which was disruptive but as she did eventually go to sleep actually worked better. Sometimes you have to change tack.

With our puppy we did a version of pick up put down I guess. So when he wasn't waking for a pee I just went in quickly on hearing a whimper, patted him for a short time, sat by him for a short time (sometimes a second round of pat and sit was needed) and then left. No talking or cuddles. If he whimpered again I gave him a minute to settle himself and if he didn't went back in. So a quick but mimalist response. He didn't want me to go when I slipped out, and sometimes that meant I had to restart with the pat, sit, leave, but I tried to be really consistent.

One thing that worked for us was to split the night. I think I had up to 2 or 3am and then dh took over after that with the pups early morning pee and then he put the pup on the sofa with him and went to sleep until 6 or so when he got up. Meant we both had four hours guaranteed sleep and shared the burden which was important to us.

This thread reminds me a bit of trying controlled crying with my children. With ds it worked very well and he soon settled and went off to sleep after minimal crying. With dd it quickly became apparent that it wasn't going to work. His two or three minutes scream, sob, thumb suck deep sleep compared to her steady crying for what felt like hours with sleep no where in sight. So we gave up and dh jiggled her to sleep for a few months. Which was disruptive but as she did eventually go to sleep actually worked better. Sometimes you have to change tack.

With our puppy we did a version of pick up put down I guess. So when he wasn't waking for a pee I just went in quickly on hearing a whimper, patted him for a short time, sat by him for a short time (sometimes a second round of pat and sit was needed) and then left. No talking or cuddles. If he whimpered again I gave him a minute to settle himself and if he didn't went back in. So a quick but mimalist response. He didn't want me to go when I slipped out, and sometimes that meant I had to restart with the pat, sit, leave, but I tried to be really consistent.

One thing that worked for us was to split the night. I think I had up to 2 or 3am and then dh took over after that with the pups early morning pee and then he put the pup on the sofa with him and went to sleep until 6 or so when he got up. Meant we both had four hours guaranteed sleep and shared the burden which was important to us.

Oops! I typed out a follow up about trying to find a quiet space somewhere (our pup slept in our spare room upstairs) as he might be less disturbed if he can't hear you so easily and somehow posted the same thing twice.

OP you can't do this alone. Whilst DH is getting upset over lack of sleep what's his solution then? Does he really want you to have to sleep downstairs for the rest of the dogs life? You do need to have a word with him when you are both awake as he needs to back you up and help rather than sabotage your attempts.

As I described at the beginning I did a half way house with the crying at night. I picked up and plonked outside and then straight back to crate. No nonsense, no playing, no running around and I left straight afterwards. Yes I had to do this lots for the first few nights but it reduced quickly and then it was just me waking him for a pee in the middle. Something to consider if you don't want to continue as you are at the moment.

Whatever way you do this I do feel you are going to have to go through some pain because your puppy has got so used to getting attention at night with crying. I would encourage you to really get on top of this because at 6 months of age mine started pushing all sorts of boundaries in other areas as he entered his teenage months and you will need your sleep to tackle that.

OP - sorry to hear of your traumatic night. Just stick with it. Can your DH wear earplugs? The soft memory foam ones are really excellent and kill a good 70 per cent of the sound.
We had success last night with our 8 week old Cockapoo and this is what we did that was different. To her pen we added my top that I'd been wearing all day ...a bit ripe. And also a shoe (canvass type) that I wear sockless. My DS noticed that when I'm milling around she goes and lies on the shoes. It worked. I swear not a peep all night after 3 days of screaming the house down. Please try it. You've nothing to loose.

Op you said you leave him alone for a few hours in the day and he is loose in the house when you do so? Presumably he isn't destroying things? Could you have him loose somewhere at night? It maybe that if he can quietly potter about that he'll be less persistent.

Although he will be very persistent because it's always worked.

Your DH is being an arsehole. If he wants the crying to stop he needs to support you, so that this dog will settle soon. Every time you go down to the whining and howling after a few hours you are confirming to the dog, that he just needs to howl for hours and you'll come.

Agree @Swimming, they are incredibly wilful and it's actually being unfair if the pup holds out hope that owner might and will come. Hope you are ok today OP and not despairing too much. It's a bank holiday, hold out hope that with the family's support and less pressure you can nail this thing. Get a smelly top and shoe in the pen!

Yapping here means I fancy company, and gets ignored*. Though thankfully the children sleep through it and our neighbours have moved out for building works.

Yipping and chittering means I need company, and this I respond to.

*though I did discover at 5am this morning if I tell her to shush she does -i’m Wondering if I can record me saying shush and rig up a speaker and a noise sensor so I don’t have to get out of bed to say it..

Hello All - apologies, I was feeling very sorry for myself last night. But despite bugger all sleep I feel ok and ready to face things today.

In answer to someone's point up thread (sorry can't remember who) I did on one occasion give him free roam of the living room and that was the night he slept through. I don't think he did any of it in the crate though, he was lying at the bottom of the stairs. The next night we did the same thing and he cried and rattled at the stairgate instead. I think I want to crack the crate because it's such a useful tool.

Don't be too hard on DH - I work from home and he is the main breadwinner so I'm fine with his sleep being prioritised. I'm away on a course this time next week so it'll be interesting to see how he gets on then!

So we managed six hours of ignoring crying. His crate stank of wee when I came down. As I said, 4.30am has been a standard wee time so I'm going to pretend I didn't completely fail by going to him at that time. He was bonkers when I got to him. Bouncing, tail wagging, licking, generally very pleased to see me but heart was pounding and lots of panting.

So, things I'm going to do differently tonight:

My local chemist had no earplugs so I'm going to the next town over to find some today.
I'm going to stay with him for a few minutes after putting him in his crate - I won't talk or engage, just be present for a little while. I'm also going to look up how to train "settle". Someone said they used Classic FM as a cue which sounds fab!
I'll make sure that he has my pyjamas to sniff.
I won't be putting his water in his crate tonight - we tried it last night, it may have made things worse.

The big question is, if he actually barks all night, how does he know that he's being let out because it's morning and not because he's been barking? I can justify getting him at 4.30am but he presumably believes that he has won!?

@Biteyshark I think maybe I was TOO hardcore last night so I think tonight I will go to him and do the lift out and put back thing.

@Thismorningwentbadly - yes I think that we had yipping at 4.30am this morning but most of it was yapping.

I use a combination of an alarm and also a 'command' to let him know it's morning. I actually say 'morning BiteyDog' and give him a fuss so he knows that actually he can be up and expecting a fuss. Any time we have to get up before that is met by silence and he now stays in his bed because I haven't said those words or the alarm hasn't gone off.

It's a hard one OldEnglishSheepDog because I know at that age my dog would have needed to pee once during that time which is why I adopted the get up and plonk outside technique so I never had to worry about him having an accident but equally he got the silent and ignore treatment if he wanted attention. I also felt that if he really needed the toilet he would know I would come. It's really about getting the technique that fits for you so I understand why others do it differently.

Whilst I understand what you are saying about your DH he does at least need to understand it's going to be painful for a bit and you both agree on how to do this so it isn't fraught in the middle of the night. Even if this simply means ear plugs and no sighing/moaning/huffing etc

I am glad you aren't too down hearted as it's really tough when you are battling things like this.

OP - Moldex ear plugs off AAmazon are brill. Moisten them a bit before inserting and they are snug as a bug and don't irritate. I'm actually just stick one in on the one side and then sleep side ways as I like to keep tabs a little on what's going on downstairs.
Glad you are feeling ok. Do try a shoe as well, that's been a fretting break through for us.
We have left a radio on low as well so it's not deadly quiet. Maybe Have stiff drink tonight as well!

The big question is, if he actually barks all night, how does he know that he's being let out because it's morning and not because he's been barking? I can justify getting him at 4.30am but he presumably believes that he has won!?

I’d say by being VERY consistent. At the moment you’re chopping and changing what you do too often (crate, no crate. Water, no water etc). Which is completely understandable of course but he doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going. One thing we did was cut the ‘night’ down significantly. So I would go to bed at say, 1am, letting dogs out before I went up. And DH would get up half an hour earlier than usual at say 5.30am which was de facto ‘morning’ and immediately let them out for wee etc before feeding. And no amount of barking/yapping (unless there was any sign of distress, which there never was) would rouse us from our beds. It’s not easy that’s for sure! You might want this

Should ad two things a. You can then gradually increase the ‘night’ hours. And b. It did help that DH was totally on board and willing and able to help.

Good luck OP. One idea. If he's barking and you want to go in but don't want to reward the barking? How about making a noise to get him to be quiet? I used to knock on the door. She shushed and then I walked in.

OP, from what you have said your pup does settle better out of the crate when you give him the choice and you Do give him the choice when you go out and last evening when he had his chew outside of the crate. So whilst crate training is a useful tool you are only using it at night it seems. You either need to be consistent with the crate during the day and night or accept that he may do better sleeping in a bigger pen perhaps placed in the same spot that he chooses for daytime naps and then use the plonk outside and back in with little fuss or attention at night. I would also take him out on a lead so he can’t mess about. Put him back to bed even after 4.30am. Around 6am, pick a moment when he is quiet and set off your alarm, arrive downstairs, open the curtains, put the kettle on,then give him a cheery greeting and let him out in the garden without his lead.

I bought the expensive earplugs for DH (you can use them again and again so I thought it was worth it). Just gave them to him and he said he wouldn't need them as he's going to be sleeping in a tent in the garden.

I have honestly never been as angry with him as I am right now. I didn't mention it before because it wasn't relevant but I unexpectedly discovered I was pregnant a few days before we were due to pick pup up. We decided to continue with getting him because we didn't know what would happen and, frankly, we were a little in shock (have been suffering from secondary infertility and had two failed rounds of IVF). I miscarried on the day we picked pup up. I slept on the sofa for a month, in real pain (and not a little panic) and trying to deal with the puppy. He was fuck all help then and, a fortnight later when I mentioned it in passing he said he had forgotten about the miscarriage.

It appears I am married to an asshole.

Oh OP I am so sorry. What an awful and stressful time you are having of it. Yep. He can fuck right off to his tent can't he?!