16wks - surely I should be allowed to sleep now?

[OldEnglishSheepDog]

I'm honestly at the end. Pup has slept through ONCE since we got him. When he wakes for a wee it can take an hour to resettle him. Much of the time I find myself sleeping on the sofa with him on my lap.

I'm currently stood in the living room afraid to move as he will start whining the moment I do. I am on the fb page everyone recommends and am following advice.

Can't fit crate upstairs so to be with him means being downstairs. Stopped bedding down on the sofa a couple of weeks ago as it felt like I was creating an expectation.

I have woken up in my own bed once since I got him. He is taken out around 10pm and settles reasonably quickly, it's when he wakes that us the problem.

Right now, despite all the planning, I am wishing we'd never got him. I am clearly incapable of looking after him and he can't be happy to be whining this much. It's not his fault but I don't know how to fix it.

Pooing not pooling

Mine didn't have water in his crate at night. Some people will say that's cruel and they should have water 24/7 but lots of people don't provide water over night so again go by your instincts and what works for you. My dog now sleeps in the bedroom at night and we don't have a water bowl in there either.

I was thinking that I should be rewarding him for the good behaviour so maybe throwing in a treat if I walk past and he is laying or sitting quietly?

You are absolutely right about this - your instincts are good

Just a random thought whilst reading about his night time drinking, could he be a bit too hot in his cratewith all his fur as well? I had my pups bed in there and he was getting too hot and now only has a blanket (ignore if that's not the case, just a thought)

OP, you are so kind and soft-hearted. It comes through in everything you write, even your thread title.
You're literally asking a bunch of internet strangers if your puppy should allow you to sleep and when everyone says yes and gives you very specific directions on how to achieve this, you are so kind or daft or presuured or lacking in conviction that you end up swiftly making things much harder for everyone, puppy most of all. You have to fake being in charge even if you don't feel it.
This lovely young dog is doing whatever he wants and you're afraid to steer him towards being a pleasant cooperative member of the family.
What will you do if he decides to gallop across the street? Snarl at your son? Climb up on the kitchen counter? Bite the postman? He's an animal; he's not going to have an A-ha! moment where he suddenly, selflessly realises "Hey! I'm keeping everyone awake here, how inconsiderate of me!"
You've got twelve or fourteen years ahead where your dog should look to you as a sensible, consistent, loving boss and if he can't do that, he'll be an insecure pushy PITA.

@Villianbroodmare You have made me chuckle. And you are right of course. I'm not QUITE as wimpy as I'm coming across though, honestly. We are very strict about nipping and sitting nicely for food, etc. But THIS is proving very tricky. To be honest, if I lived alone in the middle of nowhere then I could probably get through this but it's the added guilt of all the other people whose sleep is being disturbed!

Pup is also behaving as though he is cross with me today which is not helping my resolve. I tried to play with him earlier and I was ignored with a toss of the head! I gave him his lunch in the crate but he stopped eating as soon as I started to leave (it's all gone now though) and started barking again.

@Biteyshark this is reassuring. We were both theoretically prepared and on board - did lots of research, etc. but now I'm in sole charge so when it goes wrong, it's my fault.

@newme175 yes you might have a point, although it's in a cool spot. I've got a half size mat for it so I'll put that in and he can swap between it and the plastic. Good call.

I need to mow the lawn this afternoon so I will have a good play with him and then crate him again. We'll see how that goes.

Hi OP - we've just returned from our vets this morning for our first 'puppy check'. Had a good chat with vet (Medivet a big reputable group and a nice young vet) about sleep. She said leave the pup at night with everything they need and do NOT be tempted to pop back in. Your pup is older now, the crying is predominately frustration and boredom. You and the family have just all got to tough out the crying and yowling to get you to a better place.
Personally I'd keep your sofa time together to the mornings and not have him on the sofa at all PM, otherwise this could make him grow to feel a bit entitled. Also can you start to reduce the lighting a little from late evening? Just ideas. Have confidence that toughing it is the thing to do now.

Ps our girl cried all night again too! V early days. We will get there. Good news is that she's peeing and pooing outside like a little star!

I gave him his lunch in the crate but he stopped eating as soon as I started to leave (it's all gone now though) and started barking again - he's playing you like a fiddle!

@AgathaF.....I kind of agree with you. The little blighters are so smart they quickly learn which strings to pull, just like a toddler. Are you able to find a quiet feeding corner away from the crate OP? I just kind of feel it might be better to have the crate as being about rest / sleep, nothing more. Also put the food down for 15 mins then take it away, eaten or not.

I'm going to preface this by saying that I know dominance and pack theory are outdated concepts.

However, obviously our dogs have some kind of opinion about us and accord us some kind of status in their minds, which dictates how they interact with and respond to us.
You want that opinion to be high regard. You want to be some kind of boss/goddess hybrid whose actions have consequences, not an obsequious nursemaid who can be ignored with impunity.

I tried to play with him earlier and I was ignored with a toss of the head! I gave him his lunch in the crate...
Now obviously the reality is that you are always doing things for him... but you don't want to make it look like that. Don't serve him lunch in bed. Call him for lunch. Don't approach him to initiate play like his social inferior. Call him and if he dashes cheerfully over, reward him with a game which ends when you end it and before he has had enough. (If he doesn't come when called, then go and get him immediately and no play, rather do something else. But don't call him at all unless you're 100% sure he'll come.)

Clicker training is fun and effective, and it really switches both of your attitudes around. It makes you look actively for desirable behaviours to click, and it makes him seek ways to make you click and reward him.

OK, just to be clear - I'm really not as wet as you are starting to think! I have been told elsewhere that serving food in the crate makes it a desirable place to be. He does get told "down" and is refused access to the sofa if it's not convenient and he gets ignored if he barks or nips for attention (apart from the night-time clearly!). But I do take your points.

I feel I have just had a small win. I needed to mow the lawn but as I have an electric lawnmower with a cable, I couldn't have pup running around trying to eat it so I attached his lead to one of those tent peg type things that you put in the ground. I put it near some shade, left his water, a chew and a bit of food and cracked on. He was not happy about not being able to get to me but the noise of the mower rather drowned him out and he had to give up eventually. When he did I occasionally went over and gave him a treat or a stroke.

I feel like that's an important victory - it's a different example of me being present but unobtainable and he coped, eventually.

I wouldn’t withhold water overnight. I did for a while with my pup but she soon worked it out and used to dash for her water late evening and drink loads. I put a small bowl of water in her crate which kept her happy and then she only seemed to drink it if she was genuinely thirsty. I personally would crate the pup after walks and play sessions during the day when he is tired to associate the crate with rest time. If he is more settled out of the crate why not try putting a play pen around it so he is contained but you can leave the crate door open.

It's good to remember all the victories as it's so easy for focus on the negatives.

Keep going OP as this time next year it will all be a distant memory

That sounds great OP. I also have fed on crate to make it a positive place to be. Also limits the mess!

Every little step forwards helps.

Definitely a good learning experience for him. I don't think you're wet btw, just too nice!

Thank you all. I have been reinforcing boundaries all over the place today and poor pup doesn't quite know what's hit him!

I have seen both sets of neighbours who haven't glared at me so I'm hopeful that the noise didn't carry.

No DH tonight so I had to do bedtime which would normally be met with him whining (and then weeing) at the bottom of the stairs. For some reason, when I closed the gate he whined briefly but then pottered off and laid down. I threw him a treat as I walked past and, apart from a few minutes of yapping, I heard nothing else from him. I think he can feel the vibes from @Villianousbroodmare! I am going to channel your resolve tonight.

We are having a quiet evening. I am refusing him access to the sofa. He has settled with a chew just outside his crate. And so it begins...

Thanks for all the support folks, you have no idea how much you are helping.

Oh good luck tonight OldEnglishSheepDog - we're all rooting for you and will tune in to see how you went

I should livestream it!

Good luck @OldEnglishSheepDog you are doing amazing.

Rome wasn't conquered in a day.

Good luck!

Good luck - let him know who's boss!

Good luck. We are all rooting for you.

And so it begins. Tonight we have howling. Which is nice.

He has done a big wee. He has water for the moment. I put fresh lovely mats and blankets in for him. He has nothing to complain about.

Taking bets now as to how long he can go for before I crack or the neighbours do.