Alternatives to parasite treatments

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I had a lecture from a fellow dog walker yesterday about 'poisoning' my dogs with monthly parasite treatment. She uses garlic, apple vinegar and other natural things to prevent parasites. I was quite dismissive but now I'm wondering if I was too hasty? I don't want flea infestations or my dogs to suffer from the effects of things like lung worm, but equally I don't want to overload my dogs with dogs toxic nasties.

Garlic is quite toxic to dogs as well as being entirely ineffective as a dewormer. It causes anaemia. Tell her so next time you see her.

This is probably someone who won't give her children MMR vaccinations in case they catch autism.

Ignore her, and carry on as you are.

Think of it as the same as putting 'natural' smells on you to repel mosquitoes when you are on holiday compared to using a spray with deet in it. Which one would you think is more likely to work?

It's entirely up to other people on whether they do or don't treat with flea or worm drugs from the vets and I can understand that some people choose not to and then deal with any outbreak when it happens.

However, I want to make sure my dog never has a flea infestation and any worms are killed before they do harm so I flea and worm treat just like you do OP.

Thanks all. She doesn't do annual vaccinations either and I've heard a number of people say they are a waste of time. But our vets are lovely and I find it difficult to think they - and most of the other vets in the country - would recommend pointless or even harmful treatments just to make money. She was just so certain of herself she got me wondering.

My old lab (who has got to the age of 11 despite me poisoning her) loves to root out a tasty slug or two in the garden so her monthly treatment is necessary to protect her against lungworm as much as fleas. But apparently I should be sending her poo off for analysis every three months and treating anything identified then, not using preventative measures.

It's great to see such (imo) sensible responses to the OP. I use treatments prescribed by the vet. They're well researched and effective. Fleas, ticks and worms are nasty and best avoided. One of my dogs had a tick bite several years ago, it made her very sick.

My dogs are fit, healthy and don't have fleas , worms and are protected from the damage ticks can cause. Result.

You can do worm counts on your dog so then you only need to treat when they have worms not if they have worms.
worm count. Regular worming does not prevent worms but will just treat the worms when the dogs already have them so worm count gives the same level of protection.

Ticks fleas do need chemicals for prevention but you could remove ticks as they attach, comb daily for fleas (If you could be arsed!)

Worm counts do not give the same level of protection as worming. Worms are shed intermittently so worm counts only provide a snap shot of your dogs worm burden on that day. Toxocara worms which are shed and carried by dogs can cause blindness in people. This should be enough motivation for any dog owner to worm their dog (with vet prescribed treatment) regularly.

I've pulled a dog tick off my child's head before. I always use effective (and safe, btw) chemical treatment for my dog. I'm a pharmacist and the risk/benefit of chemical parasite treatment goes in favour of using them; for the safety of the dog and us. Natural remedies may work, but there is no evidence that the doses and concentrations she uses are effective. Without such data she is more likely to be endangering her dog, due to lack of antiparasite efficacy and the risk of giving garlic

Garlic is quite toxic to dogs as well as being entirely ineffective as a dewormer. It causes anaemia. Tell her so next time you see her

In stupidly high doses, yes!

And you’re wrong. I’ve never used chemicals on any of my dogs. I’ve always treated naturally. I’ve honestly never found a flea/tick on any of my dogs. I use raw garlic twice a week and add the vinegar to the meal.

OP I use exactly what this woman uses. Please research, ACV has SO many benefits, not just for dogs but humans too. Garlic is only toxic if given in stupidly high doses, which you wouldnt do anyway. A bit like paracetomal for humans, we take two of them when we’ve got a headache but if we took 100 it would be dangerous.

I also don’t vaccinate.

But our vets are lovely and I find it difficult to think they - and most of the other vets in the country - would recommend pointless or even harmful treatments just to make money. She was just so certain of herself she got me wondering

I don’t wish to sound nasty here but that’s incredibly naive. Of course vets try to sell/scare pet owners - it makes them money! Vaccinations for example, according to most vets every dog needs annual boosters to boost their immunity. Two things 1) you can’t boost immunity. There is NO such thing, dogs are ether immune or they’re not. 2) the manufactures who create the vaccinations recommend waiting 3 or 4 years before giving “boosters” due to the danger and risks. That’s coming from the makers themselves.

I’m not going to lecture you. I’m just going to advise you to research. I’m not somebody who believes in magic spells or potions but trust me, vets DO lie to make money.

I’ve never vaccinated or used any chemical flea or worm stuff etc. None of my dogs have ever had anything. They’re walked in mud, fields etc every single day. But I know lots of dogs who have had fleas/ticks despite being given dewormer and ‘spot on’ every single month.

It’s very much like the vax/anti-vax arguement.

If you believe in science and want a happy, healthy dog who is also not risking infecting other dogs they interact with use the vet recommended preventatives.

If you are the sort of believer who think the pharmaceutical companies are the root of all evil and homeopathy works really well don’t follow the advice of your vet. Or better still, don’t have animals.

There will always be people for and against vaccinations, and flea/tick/worming treatments.

I vaccinate myself and take preventative drugs and I do the same for my dog. If other people want to use garlic etc that's fine as it's their dog and their choice.

It's interesting though that your friend felt the need to lecture you rather than assume you have made an equally valid choice. Does she feel the need to validate her choice by making you do the same because really it's none of her business whether you treat or not.

Chippy, a sample of your one dog does not really make the cut for sound evidence. Many dogs never get ticks/fleas. Many would have a big problem without intervention. You have no evidence that what you do works. But there is good evidence for safety and efficacy of vaccines and parasite treatment

Interestingly, as you bring up that only a high contraction of garlic is toxic, what is the effective dose of garlic to prevent infection? How to you balance an effective dose which is not toxic? How do you administer it? What evidence informs the dose you use?

I’ve honestly never found a flea/tick on any of my dogs.

My mum/dads/our family dog lived to the ripe old age of 16 and never had a flea, tick or worm and was never treated or vaccinated with anything, most dogs weren't back then. A lot really depends on your dog and its environment.

I tend to believe the vet prescribed treatments work and the alternative treatments that seem to work are actually just the dogs and their environment that would never have had them anyway.

A lot really depends on your dog and its environment.

Absolutely agree WeAllHaveWings. I live in a high tick area and have pulled ticks off me before we got the dog. Ticks need to be removed before they have a chance of spreading any infection and the treatment we give our dog ensures that. It's bad enough worrying about Lymes disease as a human (and someone in our family had to be tested to rule that out) but when it's a dog and they can't explain how they feel it's even harder. When out walking it's not been uncommon to find multiple ticks on him when we get back and they are just the ones I spot.

We also benefit from herd immunity in the UK. Vaccination for certain conditions like rabies has made it very unlikely to be contracted, even by an unvaccinated dog. I live in a developing country where rabies is a big problem and vaccination is rare. It's not uncommon when people (mostly kids) are killed by rabid dog bites. Of course the dogs are routinely killed if they don't die of the infection. I'm very wary of where I walk my dog due to this. We're lucky to have vaccinations and disease control programs in the UK. I often hear of or see dogs and kids dying of treatable diseases where I live. Vaccination programs in the uk save lives of vaccinated and unvaccinated dogs. I feel strongly about vaccination because of experiencing both environments.

Chippy - I don't think it's "incredibly naive" to put your trust in someone who has gone into a profession to help animals and has treated our pets for 15 years.

I get that some untreated dogs never get parasites. That doesn't prove garlic or whatever works. It's like saying I've never had pneumonia and I drink orange juice every morning - therefore OJ prevents pneumonia.

I also know that some owners don't notice when their pets have fleas. Fleas make a beeline for me yet don't bite other people. I went to stay with my dsis once and I could see fleas on her dog but she hadn't noticed them and hadn't been bitten herself.

I also don't understand your comment about boosting immunity. People have annual jabs to boost their immunity against flu so what's the difference?

I am totally in favour of vaccinations all kids dogs etc are vaccinated BUT and a very huge but I am not in favour of over vaccination.

All my dogs are titre tested and are vaccinated when they need it not on a time schedule that is not required.

There are methods to avoiding chemical treatment that are as effective as chemical treatment but it does require effort so it must be for the individual pet owner to decide.

Biteyshark what tick protection are you using if your dogs are still getting ticks attached - if you are still having to remove them it would not seem it is that effective

usainbolt it is effective but like most tick treatments it requires the tick to bite the dog before it kills it.

It is not a repellent but it kills the tick once it has attached to the dog. If I remember correctly the tick needs around 48 hours attached to spread lymes disease but the treatment I use (nexgard spectra) kills the tick within 24 hours.

Neem oil is good as a preventative. You need to dilute it in something mild like almond oil. Use it as a coat dressing brushed through.

So combing your dogs after walks and removing ticks within 24 hours is just as effective as the chemicals treatment

Absolutely if that's what you want to choose to do.

I choose to treat ticks, fleas and worms and am perfectly happy with that choice as well.

The OP can and should make her own choice but it's a shame that the other person felt the need to 'lecture' her rather than just explaining what she does and why.

Totally agree it is the individuals choice but good to know all the facts to help people make the decision.

I guess i f you owned a hairy giant breed combing would be a ridiculous option but if you had a short breed dog that you mainly walked on the beach alternative to chemicals may be an option.

Hmm ticks are tiny when they first attach and easily missed in the first 48 hours. When they're big they've been there a few days already, I find

If you run a lint roller over your dog when you come back from a walk you will pick up the tics when they are like the spiders - this will stop the majority of them attaching to your dog. Tics take hours before they get to the skin to attach to the dog.

I would do this even if I did use chemical treatment as Biteyshark said the chemical tic treatment still allows the tics to attach.