Single and work full time - how to manage the puppy stage?

[wannabedogmama]

Hi all

I've been desperate for a dog for years and finally in as good a position as I think I'm ever going to be to get one

I am looking at small low exercise breeds, I will be able to walk them in the morning and evening and have budgeted for a daily dog walker or doggy day care during the day once they are 6 months old.

My problem now is the puppy months, how do people manage this if they work full time? I can book the first couple of weeks off and also come home at lunch time but at what age can puppies be left for 4 or so hours at a time? The dog walker I have looked into also offers 30 minute puppy visits so would that work?

I'm looking at Shih Tzus, King Charles' & Pugs - does anyone think any of those would be more or less suitable for me than the others?

Before everyone says I shouldn't be getting a puppy, i've looked into rescues for older dogs but all of the local ones have policies against homing to people working full time. I have a lot of time to give it evenings and weekends.

A puppy is a dreadful idea, a retired greyhound would suit you better, they’re generally very chilled, lazy and would sleep a lot of the day, & with a dog walker going in would be ok, a puppy is a terrible idea

Realistically, what do you think your tiny puppy is going to do between 8.00 and 5.00 every day, really?
Breed is irrelevant here, it's a baby animal, which for starters needs to be fed five times a day.

OP, I know I'm putting myself out there for all the other posters to shout at, but I work full time too and have had two dogs since puppies (not at the same time).

Neither have destroyed the house and neither have had separation anxiety.

I took the first couple of weeks off to help the puppy settle in and to start getting it used to being alone for a period of time on its own (gradually building up the time). I used to come home on lunch breaks and also used a dog walker daily when they were little. I used to leave them toys to keep them occupied (stuffed kongs, treat balls etc) but they didn't touch them and would just sleep most of the day.

I think you've thought it through and if you want a dog, get one.

To be fair to OP, I think some people have read her post and jumped straight to 'don't do it' without taking much time to really talk her through why.

OP:

Working full time and raising a puppy is almost impossible. I say this as someone who has just raised a springer from pup to 8 months and who waited 10 years to get this dog because previously I worked full time and lived alone. I know the heart break of wanting a dog but not having the lifestyle for one. I saved like mad to take 6 months off work and my mother moved in with me (with her dogs) so I knew the pup would have all day company and I would be around for the first few months. I have had several dogs before and hold a diploma in canine behaviour. It was still incredibly hard work, even for me. If I had had to work, I am 100% sure I would have a fucked up dog by now.

Puppies need so much more attention than people think they do. Some people get lucky and get a laid back dog but there are no guarantees of this (even if you choose the breed carefully).The chances are you will have a normal puppy who will be very distressed by being left.

For the first few months of their life they are programmed to cry for help when left alone as a survival mechanism. When alone their instinct tells them they are in real danger and they panic. Left for hours in this panic state you risk the dog having life long issues with being left alone. That is a life of misery for you both.

Even if the dog somehow doesn't mind being left, there are several hours a day where he will not have any guidance. Either you leave him in a crate (imagine the boredom for him) or you leave him in a safe room. With none there is is likely to wee and poo (8 week old puppies have zero bladder control and even a 3 month old dog can only really hold it for a couple of hours or so). This is going to make toilet training very hard indeed, because every single the day the dog will be toileting in the house because he has to.

It also risks the dog doing something dangerous like finding a lose electrical wire and chewing it. Licking a plug socket. Pulling something down on top of him. Trying to jump on or off chairs. All of these are things I have had to stop my puppy trying to do. All of these could cause real damage to a puppy.

The breeds you have chosen do have several serious health issues in them that require serious thought and research. That aside, they are companion breeds for the most part - dogs bred to be human companions. That means they are small, friendly and don't require excessive exercise. From that point of view they meet your criteria. But it also means they are bred to be around humans and are likely to struggle to be without their human for several hours a day. They are just not bred for solitude. Again, all dogs are individuals so there will be people out there with pugs who can leave them for hours and the pug doesn't care. That is not the norm, though.

I am a form believer that when you pick your breed, you pick your poison. All breeds have characteristics that may be undesirable. You have to pick the ones you can live with. I have a springer who is bouncy and chewy. I can live with those traits happily because they are nothing compared to all the good stuff (to me). If you pick a companion beed, you pick a dog that NEEDS company. That is their poison.

There ARE rescues out there that will consider full time workers so long as they can see real thought and planning into how the dog's needs will still be met. If you are serious, find a good day care, cost it up and use it to form a plan. Then approach the smaller, more independently run rescues in your area and you may get lucky. Be truthful and honest with them about what you can offer a dog and be open minded as to the type of dog you will get. It might not be as fashionable as a pug but is likely to be much better suited to your lifestyle.

It's also worth spending the next two weeks really imagining how to fit the dog into your life. Actually go for two walks a day, every day, regardless of weather. Rush home from work every day. Imagine once you are home, walked and fed that you then spend another hour or so training and interacting with the dog. It really helps bring it to life.

I have a small breed puppy (he is a Bichon) we've had him about 6 weeks now. His routine is:

between 6 - 7am wake up and out the garden to toilet, then breakfast
7 - 7:30am quality time with mummy whilst everyone else sleeps
7:30 am - 8:30am make everyone's life difficult whilst we try to get kid ready for school and have breakfast (he jumps all over everyone, tries to steal their breakfast, gallops around the living room, has to be taken out to toilet at least once and play ball in the garden and generally has a great time)
8:30am - back out to toilet and in the car with Dad and kid
9:00am - after school drop off walk with Dad (bearing in mind a 3 month old puppy is only allowed 15 mins of walk per day due to developing bone structure)
9:30am - back home and out to toilet
9:30am - 10:30am - play with Dad or gallop around mum's office throwing his toys around and generally causing mayhem.
10:30am second breakfast, toilet and then ignored so he collapses in exhaustion.
12:30 - wake up, toilet and charge around whilst mum and dad try to have lunch. Play ball in the garden, sit on someone's knee, play with toys
13:30 - back for a quick power nap.
15:30 - Back out to toilet, have his tea
15:30 - 17:00 - playing with Dad and kid, more toilet stops
17:00 - 18:00 - quiet time as mum cooks and the family eats. He generally potters and doesn't cause too much trouble. Sometimes he sleeps
18:00 - 19:30 - crazy time with toys / ball supper in the middle. sometimes a second short walk if the morning one didn't take the full 15 min.
19:30 he flakes out snoozes all evening. He has his last wee stop at 10:30 and then goes in his bed. He normally gets up once a night to toilet.

For the first few weeks I took him out to toilet every 20 mins when he was awake and he slept a lot more. Now he is active and wanting to play (and if there is no-one to play with he goes off and gets into trouble. I left him for 5 mins this morning and he had somehow unravelled the hoover cord and was dragging it round downstairs!). He goes toilet about once per hour when awake. He CAN hold it longer but becomes very unreliable after 2 hours and I don't like picking poop up off my floor so he goes out hourly! We've worked up to leaving him in his crate a bit. He is in the car crate for 10 mins every morning whilst hubby drops kid off at school. we've left him in the car crate for 30 mins to go into a shop. We've left him up to about an hour in his crate at home whilst we needed to go out. BUT it's taken 6 weeks to get to this point and I make sure he has had plenty of exercise and toilet stops before he gets crated.

If you were sending your puppy to daycare all day that might be ok - I don't know much about doggy daycare. Leaving a puppy alone at home all day will mean you can't housetrain him. He will poo and pee all over whichever room you leave him in. He will scratch at doors and furniture and chew absolutely anything. He will be seriously bored and lonely when you get home and I don't know how you'd be able to interact enough before bed time to make up for this. Older dogs (particularly breeds that like to lounge around all day) can cope better with extended periods alone but puppies need constant company and training. It is exhausting!

I would imagine the Op has hidden the thread by now but if not, I will just add that we got our first dog when I went from full time to part time so I would be at home more but even that wasn’t enough. I was still out for nearly five hours a day and I wouldn’t do it again. Looking back it must have been very hard for my poor boy and toilet training was a nightmare, we weren’t there to let him out and he got used to weeing and pooing in the house. He was confined to the kitchen when we were out but he would piss and shit anywhere in the house at all other times. Not pleasant but not his fault. Took months to correct.

With my current dog I am a sahm. I left him for ten minutes to walk the kids to school. I came home to stuff all over the kitchen floor. I left my phone filming him the next day and he was clearly very anxious, biting at stuff, whining and howling. And I was only gone for ten minutes.

I’m sorry you’ve found out so harshly that you’re not actually ready for a puppy. Could you go part time, is that an option? Or take a work break for a few months and look for another job when the dog has settled in?

Don’t do it OP, it won’t work and will end up in heartbreak. As others have said get a cat, volunteer at a shelter at weekends, but please read these sensible comments and reconsider your decision. Puppies are really, really hard work and it’s just not possible to train a puppy and work full time, I think you would struggle massively even working part-time, in my experience.

The dog would end up with a better bond with the dog walker than yourself.

What if your hours change?
What about if you have to go away for a few days with work? Forget after work drinks for birthdays etc.
What if your finances change and you can't afford the dog walker?
What if your chosen dog walker is off sick? (This happened to a work colleague and they didn't have a back up one so she had to work from home).
Can you work from home?
What if the dog walker/day care prices go up?
What if your dog doesn't get on with doggy day care?
What if your dog is sick, will your work let you have last minute time off for vet emergencies? On that point, will you be able to fund sudden emergencies? Which can be common with brachy breeds like Pugs.

Many rescues WILL rehome to people who work full time BUT there's usually an element of one or more of the family in either a work from home situation or they work in a dog-friendly place so the dog can go to work too.

Small breeds especially were bred as constant companions and often struggle more with separation anxiety for that reason.

Would have a long hard think about this!

I do wish people would think about how much they can offer a dog rather than “I want. I’m getting”.

You’re not in a position to have a dog. But I suspect you’ll get one anyway.

So many wise posts on here OP. Please read them and take note.

Many years ago I got a puppy the same time as a friend got one of the litter mates. I was off for the first two weeks until pup was about ten weeks. Then had to return to work leaving at 8am. Friend brought her pup to mine as worked nearer and would spend her lunch hour with them from 12-1 ( clearing up the poo mostly!) My pre teen children got home from school as soon as they could and in the early days managed it by about 4. I got home about 5.. We introduced them to a dog flap early on and kept them together in the day until they were about a year old. The pups had the run of the kitchen and an outbuilding and later into the very well doggy proofed garden. ( Must say though that my kitchen was quite wrecked!) Not only did they survive, they were both sweet natured and lovely dogs until they both died when they were about 13.
It is possible to work and have a puppy but it's quite stressful. Toilet training could take longer etc.
Out of the three breeds you mention I'd go for Shih Tzus. That's a personal preference thinking really about how the other two are bred and with their history of health defects as a result.
I know someone who recently got an older puppy and worked twelve hour days, that was horrific, puppy was left in a cage and only let out by a neighbour twice a day for a wee.
I've never left a single puppy alone but imagine you'd do all the things like radio/ TV on and lots of toys?

I work full time (out of the flat 9-10 hours) and I have a dog. She has a dogwalker at lunchtime for one hour and is fine with it. I got her from Battersea as an adult - they knew my circumstances and had no problem with it. If you get the right sort of dog (not a nervous one who doesn't want to be alone - the rescue should know their dogs and be able to tell you which dog is best), there is no reason why it shouldn't work out. The RSPCA were also happy to let me adopt a dog from them, but one came up at Battersea that clicked with me first. I do have a parrot, and the dog and parrot are good friends, the dog can look out of the window at the all day comings and goings in my cul de sac, the birds, passing dogs, etc and the radio is always left on Classic FM and a light on in the living room and one in the bird's room or they both get gloomy. I do sometimes wonder if all the people who think single working people are being cruel to have a dog and leave them at home (albeit with a dogwalker to exercise, cuddle them for an hour halfway through the day) are fortunate enough not to work full-time and I suspect, probably, have never encountered an animal that does live this way. My dog brims over with happiness and joy (the happiest dog I ever met). HOWEVER, don't get a puppy - they cannot be left alone for several hours without human contact; they will be far too lonely and badly affected. A young rescue adult (4 years upwards, I think) is the one to go for. You have to get them used to being left alone for a couple of hours, then three - four hours, etc initially. I had,
I think, two weeks with mine before I went back to work - she adjusted brilliantly .(she is a Staffie cross, in case you wondered).

Don't do it. Incredibly selfish and your choices of breeds show how little you know / care.

Hi OP
The rescue won't let you have one because it is unfair on the puppy.
The house training alone takes a lot of hard work,you need to take the pup out after he wakes up,after food after a drink,when he starts sniffing and circling.
He is going from his mum and litter to bring stuck alone in an empty house for a minimum of forty hours a week with two and a half hours dog care ?
I'm sorry but you are being selfish.this is not a good time to get a puppy.
When he isn't litter trained because there's no one with him to train him,when he develops separation anxiety and starts chewing,misbehaving,will you then label him a problem dog and put the poor soul in a rescue home ?
Please seriously reconsider,.or pay for a full time place at a puppy nursery/dog day care where he is with people and dogs all day although it will be expensive.
One day you will be in a position to home a rescue pup but now is not that time.
If you are a genuine dog lover you will wait until you are in that better position.

Unless you have a friend or family member to help in the early months I wouldn't get a puppy.
Toilet training and socialising takes a long while. Having a week or two off work to settle the puppy in wont be long enough.
Our girl had separation anxiety. It took MONTHS to be able to leave her. At all.
If you do end up getting a dog you need to do some serious research into breeds. If the ones you listed one can take an age to toilet train, one has serious issues due to pushed in nose and one often has a brain too big for the skull.

For those people suggesting a retired greyhound - the retired grehound trust won't rehome to you if you work FT. She also mentioned quite small breeds - pug etc. That's quite a size difference from a greyhound.

For the dogs sake please DO NOT get a dog!!!

You’d be getting a dog and setting it up for a life of loneliness.

@wannabedogmama the dog will be fine! Dogs don't need attention all day, as long as they are getting walks and attention in the morning/evening. We did this with our puppy:

Took 2 weeks off work to settle him in

Get toilet training done as much as possible before you go back to work

Went home from lunch everyday until he was 6 months.

Slowly built him up to being on his own for 6hrs.

If you do it gradually they don't really notice. My dog just sleeps all day quite happily.

Don't let them have too much space to early. We started with kitchen, then expanded into lounge when we felt he needed more space, and now he gets the bedroom upstairs too.

I don't think a decent breeder would even sell you a puppy based on what you've said. A puppy farm/gumtree puppy then yes but that would be a terrible idea especially with the breeds you've mentioned. We have a retired greyhound and he's rarely alone and never more than four hours. Hes ok on his own, just sleeps really but he's much happier when we 're here.

Lazy YOUR dog may be fine with that. Many wouldn't. Mine would freak at being left that long. TBH the longest an adult dog should be left is 4 hours. It's not fair to expect a dog not to have a wee for 6 hours.

Lazy puppy - My dog just sleeps all day quite happily.

How do you know that? Do you have a dog cam?

Get a puppy, take it from his mother and siblings and everything he knows and take it to a strange place.

A little puppy who needs lots of time, attention, training, socialising and play to bond with his owner and become confident. Not to mention 4 meals a day and regular toilet breaks.

Then stick him in a crate, and leave him on his own all day, five days a week... Great!!

Allow the puppy to have a great life with a family, (or person) , who can adequately care for him and meet his needs.... get a goldfish instead!!

Your hours out of the house (say 7:30 - 5:30) do not fit with having a dog. Sorry. Just don't do it.

Our neighbours who also work full time have a dog. We don't work full time, actually we don't work at all but are around now and then. They don't seem to understand that their dog barks. A lot. As soon as we are out of bed in the morning. It barks for about 20 minutes. When it hears us getting breakfast it barks, for about 20 minutes. It barks non stop from 11.30 to 12 or 12.15 during the day while waiting for the dog walker. Then of course it barks for 20 to 30 minutes when we come back from wherever we have been. Then it barks for half an hour at 5 onwards, waiting for one of their owners to return. Please don't get a dog if you are not there to walk it and socialise with it during the day. They are pack animals and either need another dog, or a person as part of their pack to socialise with. I'm sure our neighbours think their dog is happy. The bloody dog might be but we aren't. They are lovely neighbours, apart from the bloody dog.

And, lazypuppy, do you live next door to us?