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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Behaviour/dominance theory etc

90 replies

Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 08:17

Have 6 year old dog.
Got puppy 7 weeks ago.
Expected no issues. Has been horrendous ever since.
Finally bit that bullet and had behaviourist in last week. V expensive but I was desperate for help.

I've been told problem is my dog who thinks she is pack leader. That if she gets chance she will kill the puppy so i must keep them separate. That she's dangerous to have around my children. That all the things I thought were her being affectionate are dominance and need to be stopped.

I'm so upset. Am trying to put all the suggestions into place and teach her to behave better but she's so unhappy. She has barely got out of her bed every day. When we go for a walk it's such a palaver to go out "correctly" that it's half hour till we get out of the door. Doing mealtimes "properly" means me getting the kids up at 6am so they are fed before the animals and the puppy is hysterical by the time she gets some food.

I feel I have been doing everything "wrong", yet never realised. I thought I just had a happy, bouncy dog who loved us all. But now I have a house of shut doors, a puppy I can't housetrain because she can't get to the garden, and my children terrified to go near the dog :(

OP posts:
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 18/03/2018 12:22

Tatterdemalion In Defence of Dogs is brilliant, agree.

Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:23

Dog is a cocker, puppy is a pug.

Currently dog is in her basket in kitchen eating a carrot. Pup is in her playpen in the lounge eating lunch. Door open between rooms but when pup is out of playpen door will be closed.

OP posts:
Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:24

And long walk not happening here as we have a lot of snow (again ffs)

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usainbolt · 18/03/2018 12:29

Brilliant that sounds like a good arrangement re the the rooms.

Agree about the ruddy snow (doing my head in!)

usainbolt · 18/03/2018 12:31

You are probably really busy but scent work is a great calming activity for most dogs (especially the spaniels).

You could hide bits of food or kibble around the room and get big dog to search for it - it will tire her out and also be very relaxing and bring down some of the stress hormones.

Obviously keep puppy well away as this is going on.

Scentwork can tire my collies out more than 6 hours walk

Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:31

When I take puppy to the toilet I carry her so dog doesn't have to interact as we walk through kitchen. But apparently this is wrong because I'm elevating her and making her more important?
I'm just trying to get her to learn to wee outside quickly!!

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Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:33

I was doing that with little treats. Well actually it would be things like tiny bits of toast, cheese, veggies that I would just scatter on the kitchen floor.

But apparently this is bad as treats must be rare and early :(

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Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:34

When I say scatter I mean, bits under the chairs, in corners, etc. Not that I just threw it all instead of clearing up!!

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Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:34

Earned not early!!!

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BiteyShark · 18/03/2018 12:37

Take a step back. I know it's hard as you have paid for this advice but do you really think it is helping? You are overwhelmed and struggling at the moment but think about all the training people do, the majority is done through praise and treats.

Rare treats and making them early is rubbish. Yes you can grade treats, such as higher reward for the tricky stuff like recall etc and not feeding just before a walk so treats are more effective makes perfect sense. None of what you have been told makes any sense.

BiteyShark · 18/03/2018 12:40

Just seen your update, yes treats are earned but they can earn it through lots of things. I use lots of treats for lots of things and they never lose their value as they want to be rewarded.

Also baby gates, if you can use them and don't have them I would invest in them asap. I have two and they are a blessing and would make your life much easier with two dogs.

usainbolt · 18/03/2018 12:40

Your instinct is sooooooo much better than the advice you have been given. You just need a little bit of real life advice to help you through this initial stage. I reckon a one hour session with a trainer will sort it

The pug will not feel elevated. Big dog will be glad that puppy is being rushed through and not hassling them.

Hiding is food is great (although I have been known just to chuck it and hope they find it all to save me clearing it up!)

BiteyShark · 18/03/2018 12:47

Also OP I suspect you are feeling a bit of conflict right now. You paid for 'expert advice' but we are saying a lot of it is rubbish. But deep down I think you know what you were told isn't working out and making anyone happy.

Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 12:52

Can I ask something else here?

Dog was my ex H's dog really. Well a family dog (and I don't think she liked him much lol) but he used to train her etc. In fact he "loved" her so much he told her he was leaving and not the kids.....

And then hes rarely seen her except briefly at drop off of kids etc when she's excited to see him and he blanks her.

However new puppy occasionally goes to his with the kids for a couple of hours as I can't leave her at all and they want her with them.

But apparently this is VERY BAD as dog can smell puppy has been there and resents her for it? So that needs to stop? Or I need to do v exciting things with dog to make it up to her (rather than dashing to the supermarket or bank etc).

OP posts:
usainbolt · 18/03/2018 13:10

No it does not need to stop. It give both dogs a break from each other. It gets the puppy seeing new things and places and gives big dog a break - it is a brilliant idea I would keep doing it.

Big dog will not resent the puppy for this at all. I expect big dog will love having the quiet time at home alone or with just you.

Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 13:16

The puppy also goes to a friend with dogs in the week once or twice for a couple of hours, as that's the only way I can work. Again apparently bad because she will come home smelling of other dogs?

But I had thought important for her socialisation? And again gives big dog a break. Oh and enables me to actually go to work Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 13:30

I can't have a stairgate as there is just the lounge and kitchen with glass french doors between which I close but they can still see each other.

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Original poster
Strawberryshortcake40 · 18/03/2018 13:32

Have been giving treats to big dog all morning and not doing all the things I'm supposed to be.

Puppy is currently asleep in playpen (first time ever), dog is asleep about 4 foot away. Normally she won't even go in same room.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 18/03/2018 13:34

OP, if your trainer actually said half of these things she is a bloody loon
Never heard such a pile of shite ( her, not you). It’s like she’s never actually met a dog

usainbolt · 18/03/2018 13:36

Yay progress Grin

hugglesfor4 · 18/03/2018 13:55

My dog was 2 when we got a 9 week old puppy. He hated him - walked around with his head and tail down for 2 weeks. He avoided him as much as possible and would growl if puppy went near him. Puppy always wanted to curl up with him and big dog would growl and raise his lip. We bought the biggest bed we could find so they could share in the day but we'd move puppy so he wasn't touching big dog. Nighttime puppy would sleep in a crate but big dog was free.

We always feed big dog first, he also gets treats and fussed first. Took about 2 weeks for big dog to accept him and they are best of friends now. Won't go anywhere without each other.

Both dogs pull when on lead for walks - we have a halti anti pull harness which is fantastic! I couldn't walk mine without it. Mine are beagles so just want to hunt which is why they pull.

Give them time - maybe put puppy in his playpen so they can get used to each other and big dog doesn't get overwhelmed by the bouncy puppy.

Good luck x

Shambolical1 · 18/03/2018 15:56

But apparently I need to "correct" dog by poking her shoulder, until she stops.

Oh lordy. Presumably because this was how Early Man domesticated the wolf? Or did your 'behaviourist' see a certain TV personality at it on screen?

This would actually be funny, if it wasn't so pitiful and it all hadn't been so expensive for you, both financially and in time and effort. And if this 'behaviourist' hadn't made you frightened of your own dog! That's unforgivable.

There's some great advice posted here which needs no shoulder-poking nonsense or dominance/heirarchy/top dog rubbish.

Chippyway · 18/03/2018 16:15

Oh bloody hell. Your behaviourist knows nothing

babyblackbird · 18/03/2018 16:20

It makes me so angry that someone so dangerous can be allowed to work with animals. The advice your "behaviourist " has given you will without doubt make matters worse. Do not follow the advice.

Everything she has told you is wrong and is clearly not helping at all so just stop and as someone else has said trust your own instincts on this. You have had this dog for 6 years , why would she suddenly turn into a killer around your children ? The only reason I can think of is out of frustration and fear from following the appalling advice you have been given. Sorry to rant but you really need to find a force free trainer / behaviourist who uses positive reinforcement methods.

Bubble2bubble · 18/03/2018 19:10

Your playpen set-up sounds really good. Puppy is completely fine in there, big dog can check out the pup in her own time and no one comes to any harm. Treating the older dog for behaving calmly around the pup in this situation is absolutely the way forward.

Your dog is entirely within her rights to tell the puppy to back off, and this is how the puppy learns to behave correctly around older dogs. The older dog should absolutely never be punished ( poked in the shoulder - whaat? ) for growling.

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