May have to rehome our dog

[TornAboutThisDecision]

Namechanged for this as some details may be outing. I'm tearing myself apart mentally over this decision so any advice would be appreciated.
We adopted a greyhound in May and at first all went really well. Lately, he's been getting snappier and growling a lot at all of us (me, DH, 2 children, 7 & 5) and he has bitten my husband. He constantly steals food and gets very aggressive about it.
On top of this my work hours are about to increase so I won't be around for the whole working day all week days, when we got him I wasn't working so I could be with him and then I got a p/t job. I feel he will be lonely because of this change.
We adopted him from a trust and if we don't keep him then they take the dogs back and rematch him with a new family.
Would it be best for all involved to have him rehomed? It doesn't sit right tbh, but I can't be happy with the children possibly being bitten and definitely feeling scared in their own home. We love him and would miss him terribly so we keep going round in circles about this.

noitsnotteatimeyet

Explain why then? Expert

I’ve never said I’m an expert appleandcinnamon far from it, but the slightest amount of research into modern, evidence-based dog training methods would show you that training based on ‘dominance’ is unlikely to work and could actually make many behavioural issues worse.

CornflakeHomonculus posted a couple of good links on the useful resources thread - here’s one

You told me that her dog isn’t expressing dominant behaviour and that I’m talking bollocks. I’d say you knew more than just one article someone else wrote? So explain what behaviour her dog is expressing when it sits on her and growls?

Wonder how many of you are the first to blame the parents when another dog is in the news for attacking or killing a young child/baby. Or are you all the type of people who's immediate thought is what happened to the dog 🙄

The OP isn't getting rid of a dog because she can't be arsed. It's being aggressive and she has children in her home. That should take priority and I can not understand any situation where it wouldn't.

Dominance theory was based on flawed research. Devad Mech et al studied a group of captive, non-related wolves and observed their hierarchy and dominance displays. All subsequent 'dominance training' was based on this research.

Mech et al then went on to study wild wolves and realised that in the wild, wolves live in family packs and their relationships are based on age and experience with the mother and father being the Alpha and Omega. Violence is rarely used, unlike in non-related wolf packs.

Further studies on feral dog packs have proved that relationships between dogs are fluid and based on past experience and the importance of the resource at stake to the dogs in question. Again, violence (alpha rolling, snapping etc) is rarely used. There is no Alpha male in the pack or strict pack hierarchy. As there's no Alpha, there's no 'the alpha must eat first' rules.

The difference in the way the wild dog packs and wolf packs operate, show how different the wolf and the domestic dog now are. Using training methods based on flawed research of wolf packs to train a domestic dog is at best useless and at worst dangerous. Your dog really does not give a shit who enters the room first or whether you eat a cracker in front of him before you feed him. If you start being abusive to him in the name of showing him who is boss, the result will be a nervous dog. Nervous dog's are more likely to bite.

Yours sincerely,

An Expert
(Bachelor's degree in Canine Behaviour and Training)

Where did I say that she needed to abuse the dog?

And please give the girl some decent advise then before she puts the dog to sleep or it bites her kids.

@iamlucy absobloodylutely

I honestly do not understand the mumsnet obsession with allowing aggressive dogs to stay in teh family and hope to train them out of it. The ranking of dogs as being equal to human family members, even when they would at best be happier in a different home, and at worst, openly snap at and clearly show they would like to bite or savage family members. its incredible

My advice would be contact a APDT registered behaviourist who uses positive reinforcement.

I can't see the dog, therefore cannot pinpoint its triggers. The best way to train a dog not to be aggressive is to stop putting it in situations where it feels it needs to be aggressive. If your dog bites when it is on the sofa, stop allowing it on the sofa, train it to stay on the floor using positive reinforcement.

Don't leave food where it can steal it and remove the dog from the room before you start eating. For food aggression, adding food to the dogs food bowl while he's eating teaches him that humans near his food is a good thing. Toss bits of chicken or cheese into his dish while he's eating. Don't have high value treats laying around the house, feed them only in a controlled environment.

An on the ground trainer will observe the dog and will be able to identify the root cause of the aggression. They'll work with OP to slowly desensitise the dog, while working to prevent further incidents.

I'm afraid I can't help with the food stealing. Greyhounds counter surf. It's what they do. Move all the food. My parent's greyhound stole the Christmas Turkey. From the oven. Whilst it was cooking.

Christmas day was a fragrant affair at my parent's house

I'm obviously the most irresponsible dog owner in the country. I go to work 4 days a week and leave him (rescue dog) alone for upwards of 8 hours. I have no issues with him at all - he has a long walk before I leave the house in the morning, a shorter one when I get back and is always by my side when I'm at home. I can't believe some of the ignorant and spiteful comments from some people who seem to think dogs can only survive if their owners don't work and stay at home with them all day long. Is it better for them to be stuck in a kennel most of the day waiting to be rehomed?

He had some issues when I got him (aggression towards other dogs) but I used the behaviourist at the rescue centre and things were ironed out. OP, you sound like a thoughtful and caring owner and are only trying to do what's best for the dog and your family. You weren't to know these issues would appear and adopted him in all good faith.
I wish you all the best but please don't feel guilty if you have to give him up.

@Branleuse I do come at it from a place of a certain amount of bias as I'm not a 'dog person' so probably don't have the same amount of enthusiasm for making it work that a dog lover would obviously have but I find the whole hand wringing and 'please don't ever own another pet' baffling.

I would be far more judgemental of someone who chose the needs of an aggressive dog over the safety of their children tbh

Whatever your thoughts on dominance theory it's basic animal behaviour that a certain action can elicit a desired outcome. So while of course a dog can growl because it feels frightened, anxious etc etc and you should consider that in your training, so too can it learn that by showing aggression it can get what it wants. It's not dominance, its basic animal behaviour. Toddler tantrums in a shop, you buy a sweet, toddler tantrums next time it's in a shop (yes yes I know dogs are not people). Dog learns that growling stops its bone being removed, stops it being removed from sofa etc etc then it will continue to do so.

I'm all for positive training methods and ensuring that the dog is happy/confident/secure in its environment and for teaching children how to behave around dogs however there also has to be definite ground rules that are not to be crossed. Snapping or biting unless in a genuinely stressful situation, and that does not include a child sitting on the same sofa as the dog, should not be permitted. A dog should not be allowed to achieve its desired outcome by showing aggression. Some of the advice given on here to people with dogs showing aggression terrifies me sometimes. Strategies that solely avoid/distract from the issue don't actually address the issue and to me are asking for disaster particularly in houses with young children.

Whatever your thoughts on dominance theory it's basic animal behaviour that a certain action can elicit a desired outcome. So while of course a dog can growl because it feels frightened, anxious etc etc and you should consider that in your training, so too can it learn that by showing aggression it can get what it wants. It's not dominance, its basic animal behaviour. Toddler tantrums in a shop, you buy a sweet, toddler tantrums next time it's in a shop (yes yes I know dogs are not people). Dog learns that growling stops its bone being removed, stops it being removed from sofa etc etc then it will continue to do so

I agree with this to a point. Dogs can be inadvertently rewarded for growling, which can increase the frequency of their growling but positive training isn't as a simple as that.

If my dog growled at me for going near his bone, I'd take my hand away from his bone (reward for growling) but the training wouldn't end there. I don't want a dog in my house growling at me because I happened to sit three inches away from a bone I have no interest in.

My first step would be to remove the bones completely (after removing the dog). I'd then start working with less high value treats, teaching the dog that human hands near his food is a good thing i.e I'd offer the dog some kibble and then add some chicken to the kibble. I'd teach leave, give and swap as commands. The training would slowly work up to me being able to command him to leave his bone, allowing me to remove it or to swap it for something else. He wouldn't see me as a threat to his bone, as he would've learned I bring good things, I don't take them away arbitrarily.

Sadly, this sometimes works too well and your formerly food aggressive dog will bring you half chewed bones and drop them into your lap while you're watching TV, where he'll then proceed to munch loudly on them while scraping his teeth over the bone [shudder]

Absolutely agree, positive training works well if done correctly and there's a lot more to dealing with for example food aggression than just removing the food. But some of the advice given on here is worryingly naive. There was a post on here about a rescue who had started growling at the young children when they tried sit on the sofa with the dog. The solution....... don't allow the children to approach the sofa when the dog is on it! I mean come on, dog growls at children for simply approaching and dog is off the sofa and out the room and I'd be seriously considering whether that dog should ever have been rehomed with kids.

We have two dogs and whilst my heart said rescue my head said with two young kids, pup. I take my commitment to taking on an animal very seriously and for us the best way was for us to be in charge of its training from the start. My training is heavily positive but there is a line that my dogs are not allowed, and have never been allowed to cross. There's an overwhelming message on here that people should rescue and if one rescue won't rehome to you keep looking until you find one that will and then once problems arise, well it must be that badly behaved child's fault. I completely understand the overwhelming demand for people to rescue and future dogs of ours will be rescues, but the advice on here is sometimes quite worrying.

It's just a dog. Rehome it.

AS long as you aren't going to put it in a bag and throw it in the river I don't see what the issue is as long as you find it a good loving home.

Sometimes dogs don't work out. Mumsnet is so sanctimonious about dogs.

The solution....... don't allow the children to approach the sofa when the dog is on it! I mean come on, dog growls at children for simply approaching and dog is off the sofa and out the room and I'd be seriously considering whether that dog should ever have been rehomed with kids

I'd agree a dog who does that possibly should not have been rehomed with children. The advise itself isn't worrying. It's just too simple. Growling should always be rewarded. If your dog growls at you, stop what you are doing and back the fuck off if you don't want to be bitten. It's their last warning before biting. Listen to it.

But that is never where the training should end. Your dog is growling for a reason. Something is stressing it or causing it fear. Fix it. It's your responsibility as a dog owner to ensure your dog is happy and secure. A growling dog is neither happy or secure.

A dog on the sofa, growling at approaching children is either resource guarding the sofa (simple fix, nothing to do with the children, everything to do with the sofa) or he is scared of the children (less simple to fix but not an insurmountable problem). If your dog has an aggression problem contact a qualified trainer who will observe the dog and work out if the dog simply loves the sofa or if he's terrified of the children and will help you deal with it but the first step should be stopping the dog going on the sofa, not stopping the children going on the sofa.

Or.......your dog, like any animal, has learnt that growling gets what it wants. It is not always fear and anxiety. Often it is, sometimes they are probably pushing they're luck because they've learnt they can. But I do agree that the only way to address it with someone who knows what they are doing assessing the situation

To address some points from the OP:

The food stealing is constant but opportunistic, we never leave food out but he will grab food from people's hands

Keep the dog in a separate room or crated when people are eating. Then work on the food aggression in a controlled environment. A trainer will walk you through this but while you are waiting for the trainer to get back to you, you can start by standing however close to the food bowl the dog will allow while he's eating (if he growls, you've gone too close, step back) and toss a higher value treat into his bowl. Slowly go closer until you are able to place the food into the dish by hand, always backing off again if the dog growls.

For the sofa, the dog is comfortable and you are disturbing him. Stop allowing him on the sofa. Start by teaching 'OFF'. Using a houseline, guide the dog off the sofa and treat when he's on the floor. Repeat until the dog gets off the sofa as soon as he's back on it, couple the behaviour with the command OFF and treat. Whenever the dog gets on the sofa, tell him to get OFF. He'll soon learn the sofa is out of bounds.

You might later be able to start inviting the dog onto the sofa if you want to, depending on how much he trusts you and how well the training goes.

Teach him to love his bed more than the sofa by hiding treats in it and randomly dropping treats onto his bed while he's in it. His bed will soon become more interesting to him than the sofa. Make sure he has a safe place he can escape where all the family understand he is not to be approached or disturbed. Call him out of the bed if you need/want to interact with him.

Please note that this advice is not to replace a trainer. I can only guess at what the cause of the aggression is based on what it's most likely to be. A trainer will see first hand what is causing it and how bad it is and will give you an in depth, personalised plan to deal with it.

Hire a dog walker for the weekdays.