What is it with pugs?

[Flippetydip]

Didn't want to derail the "name the pug" thread by being unfriendly but I don't get the attraction. They are overbred to the point of being disastrously unhealthy from everything I've read and seen.

My daughter (6) loves them (sadly for her, we have the extreme opposite - a greyhound!) but I have told her we will never have one as the vets' bills would be sky high.

sparechange, I agree.

I've had 6 dogs - 5 of which were 2nd hand in one form or another (I have my own issues with the term 'rescue' because I think it's a self-gratifying term to use - but that's my hang up).

My latest dog was a bought as a puppy. I wanted a puppy for specific reasons, not least because I am currently studying for a BSc in Canine Behaviour and so am increasingly aware that the first few weeks of a dog's life have so much influence on how they will behave for the rest of it. I also currently have two older Jack Russells in the house (Dogs Trust) one of whom sometimes struggle with adult dogs: a hangover to his very early puppy experiences, as it happens. Some things that happen to dogs in that time cannot be undone, even with patience and love and training.

There were few puppies to choose from in shelters plus most places expressed an issue with how I would 'cope' once I had to go back to work - despite the fact that there is someone home all day while I am out so the dogs are almost never alone.

Blaming responsible puppy buyers for breeding cruelty is akin to blaming people who have their own children rather than adopt responsible for all the child abuse/slavery etc that goes on. After all, if they adopted rather than had their own children, surely there would be one less child out there being neglected...

* it's not that you're picking a breed just because of some ridiculous and selfish "criteria" or "requirements" to enrich your own life.*

It’s exactly that though! I have a hobby that involves working dogs. I want my dog to be good at that work so I can enjoy my hobby because it enriches my life!

And I had a list of criteria and requirements for the dog and it’s parents, mostly based around proof that the bloodlines have a long history of winning awards for their work but DH also wanted a specific colour

Fiddle by that reasoning, buying a used car from a reputable dealer creates a situation whereby there is demand for vehicles therefor encourages car theft thus perpetuating auto theft.

I don't disagree with you that there is a very real problem with unscrupulous breeders jumping on the bandwagon of popular breeds and those breeds suffering as a result, but my desire to have a dog that is small enough to pick up (serious back problems) big and robust enough to withstand being tripped over occasionally by DF (partially sighted), patient enough to handle small children, and content to sit and cuddle with me during my frequent health problems is neither selfish or ridiculous. All pets are there for the enjoyment of their owners, that the whole point. If we didn't enjoy them, we wouldn't have them.

Of course their welfare is absolutely paramount - I have had rescues, I've had working dogs and now I have a pedigree 'fashionable' breed. They were / are all loved, wanted and carefully acquired.

I do believe that to sell a puppy in the U.K. you should require a breeders license which can only be obtained through strict inspection and vetting, regular unscheduled inspections and health testing of breeding stock. They should be charged enough in application fees to cover the cost of administering this. If it was illegal to sell puppies without this license it would go a long way toward reducing the number of poorly bred and unwanted dogs out there.

"Buying a puppy from a breeder creates a market for puppies which encourages ruthless, horrible people to breed dogs in appalling conditions. So, yes, it does."

No, buying a puppy without actually being picky about where you get it from creates that...

Tabulah exactly!

I think that if you buy from a reputable breeder it's fine.

I'm glad we rescued our hound but that's because
a. I'm stingy and she cost us £150 all in, spayed, chipped, wormed, flead, collared and leaded,
b. I'm lazy and I so could not be arsed with all the hoo-ha that comes with a puppy and
c. there are SO many greys that need homes. She is not my ideal breed but I didn't want to contribute to the hideous puppy trade (and again, I'm lazy) when there are literally thousands of hounds needing a home.

And to the pp who said hate is a strong word, I don't hate pugs at all, I just don't see the attraction. I also think that the "fashion" of pugs is creating a lot of backstreet breeders. I'm sure that scrupulous pug breeders do exist but I think there's also a lot of unscrupulous breeders who breed a bitch to exhaustion and who do it solely for the money.

I think they are seen as an accessory because they are cute. Like a teddy or something rather than a dog.

When I went to rescue a dog I had no idea what I would come home with. I just new I wanted an older dog that still liked being out and about. I was presented with a very ugly, smelly, fat dog. Obviously over time I have started thinking she is adorable, but if it was based on appearance I wouldn't have got her.

It seems I'm one of a minority that was willing to see past what a dog looks like. I am very happy with my not so cute dog because she is so clever and affectionate and loves to play. You will gradually learn to love a dog based on those things no matter what it looks like. So I really don't understand the fascination with "cuteness".

@Fantasticmissfoxy I don’t consider myself superior to other dog owners.

I do, however, feel very strongly that people need to open their eyes and educate themselves about dog breeding. There is a huge amount of information out there, but yet people still buy puppies with no consideration about where they have come from.

There was a thread in AIBU this morning by someone who had bought a pup from Latvia off Preloved. Even if your gut instinct didn’t tell you how ill advised that is, Google could give you all the information you want on puppy smuggling, fake passports, fake vaccination cards et al
People don’t even google- they want that pup, today, regardless of the consequences.

Bubble I couldn't agree more! Far too many people buy / acquire dogs full stop in my opinion, and many many people have no idea of the reality of some of the breeds they are buying because they like the way they look - poor Staffies being used as 'hard man' accessories, chihuahuas being treated as though they are an accessory and not a living creature, huskys and malamuts being kept in tiny houses / gardens with barely any exercise.

Where we disagree is that it's a pedigree puppy V rescue mongrel problem, I believe it's the morons of the world V sensible people that's the real problem! It's not the dogs, it's the idiot clueless owners - as evidenced by so so many threads on here about out of control dogs harassing / injuring people, badly trained and socialised dogs being aggressive or destructive etc

I can sympathise OP

My daughter also goes nuts over pugs, French bulldogs, Chihuahuas etc. and we also have a disappointing yet beautiful (and healthy) greyhound.

Flippety, I don't agree with you about greys.

To me they are a wonder of nature's "design" with their curved back, slim waist, slender legs and gentle faces. They are the super models of the dog world!

Mine often poses, front paws crossed and a slight look of disdain on her face

There I agree.
Elegant and gorgeous.
Flippety you're outvoted. And so BU!

I am actually quite offended by many of the ill informed comments on this thread.

For the people saying they make a point of making dreadful remarks to pug owners (people and dogs who they know nothing about!) it really is a dreadful way to behave!

The pug as a breed is centruries old and there are tens of thoudands of people who own pugs having decided this is the right breed for them, not because they are supposedly fashionable. Ther are many very commited and concerned braders out there who do extensive health testing on their bereding animals in order to reduce the potential for health issues, of course there are poor or irresponsible being as well just like any other breed.

Like many pedigree breeds the pug is suffering rom the result of many many generations of a small genetaic pool, however with pugs the difference is you can see the results whereas many other breeds which are still just as troubled health wise the issues are not as obvious.

To tar the whole breed as unhealthy and all owners as unhealthy as irresponsible is plain ignorant.

Both our pugs are fit and healthy and very active little dogs, in the pug circle we belong to with over one hundred dogs only a small number maybe two ot three have any type of breathing issues and that tends to be lack of tolrance to heat, which a responsible ownser can make allowances for.

For anyone buying any type of dog including a pug the message needs to be th same, buy froma. Reputable breeder who actively tests for health and genetics!, but dont vilify a whole breed.

Ok, Ok, I concur, the greyhound is a majestic creature (and I do love the pointiness) - it is also absolutely built for what it does, which is speed. I see that. What was the pug bred for originally? Did the squashed face have a purpose?

fucksake Yes, it is suffering from a small gene pool - hence my original question I guess. It's obviously, very obviously, been overbred. Therefore, why the attraction?

There's a huge difference between conformation related issues and other heritable health issues.

Labradors aren't prone to hip dysplasia because they're shaped like labradors. It would be entirely possible to have a whole breed shaped exactly like labradors where none of them suffer from hip dysplasia at all.

Conversely pugs (and other brachycephalic breeds) are highly prone to breathing issues precisely because of the shape they are. Whilst some brachy dogs have relatively normal breathing there's a direct correlation between the shortness of the muzzle and the likelihood of a dog suffering from BOAS. In order for pugs/bulldogs/frenchies/etc. to be reliably free of breathing issues/eye problems/poor dentition they need to have less shortened skulls.

Breeders utilising BOAS testing is good but relatively unreliable in terms of preventing breathing issues compared to breeding for less exaggeration.

Pugs used to ride on horses with the emperors in ancient China.

I have been told, by a puggy friend. Is tbis true fucksakes?

It sounds cool so I want it to be true

Flippety I'm glad you have accepted YABU!

slim - that sounds very cool, but did they need short snouts? I don't think they used to be that short did they? It's a fairly recent phenomenon that they are so squashed I think.

Wolfie I've always loved the pointiness - it's the rear end that is SO unattractive. Ours in affectionately called "big butt" often.

is affectionately called obviously.....

I don’t like the way their tail points to their arsehole.

A rescue dog is not suitable for everyone, nor is a cross breed or mongrel - I had very specific breed requirements around size, temperament etc which couldn't be met by a rescue where I had no ideas of its history or how it would turn out.

I really don't understand or agree with this. There are many rescues in the UK with a huge variety of dogs. If you're looking for a small, short-haired, low energy amenable dog then you will find one in a rescue. Very few are strays and many come with a complete history. You also know how it's turned out by the assessment the rescue will be able to provide you with.

If your home and lifestyle is suitable for a dog then there's always going to be a rescue dog that's suitable for you. It might mean a bit more effort and wait, but it's out there.

I have two dogs at my feet who came to me as homeless youngsters of a year old. Both are awesome pets and I couldn't have found better with any breeder.

Gorgeous Pop, I adopted a puggle (pug and beagle), very similar looking.

We've got a staffy that we got when she was 11months old. We actually got her kind of by accident. A couple down the road where we used to live, their staffy had pups, they sold all but one. After a while it became obvious that both the mum and puppy were being mistreated, they were so skinny . They'd been reported but for some reason still had the dogs. They ended up selling the mother but couldn't get anyone to buy the pup. One day my husband heard them shouting at the pup, he approached them and offered them 50 quid for her. He came home and said he'd bought the puppy from down the road and how did I feel about keeping her. I've never looked back! Been a long road to get and keep her weight stable, she's absolutely tiny, about half the size of an average staffy, vets reckon a mix of her being the runt and starved at a young age. She's amazing with our children and is now 7 years old. The whole experience has just given me a terrible view of breeders, I knownits not always like that but it was awful.

To the point, I don't see the appeal with pugs. I saw a programme about the over breeding of them and it showed what's under all them wrinkles in the nose. All infected and smelly, such a shame

Pugs have been around for hundreds of years and are a long lived breed. Those I know are healthy and energetic.
Part of their appeal is they have huge character and personality. Greyhounds are very boring dogs.

Not a fan of pugs myself because of their health issues. To a lesser degree I don’t like dachsunds because of their health problems also.

On the other hand there’s an explosion of backyard breeders of dogs like huskies. Unless dog breeding becomes more expensive and less of a money spinner to the owners it’s not going to become more responsible.