Checking out a breeder

[DontShootMeDown]

Hi,

I want to make sure we don’t support an unethical breeder when we get our puppy. Please don’t tell me to go to a rescue, I know that’s what many people feel is the only ethical way to get a dog, but it’s not for us. We want a very specific type of dog, plus we have a four year old so many rescues won’t consider us.

So we have found a breeder who seems great. She interviewed us first, asked to meet us face to face, had us in her home where we saw the mum and dad dogs, saw mum feeding pups, she showed us all their paperwork and health checks, asked us to sign a contract including promise to return the puppy if we can’t cope. She has an FB group for all her past Puppy owners and the owners on their seem very happy. She clearly adores her dogs.

My only reservation is she owns thirty five dogs. Thirty five! We saw them all. And she has quite a few litters a year albeit from different mums and no mum will ever have more than four litters in a lifetime. After four litters she spays the mum but keeps them as a loved family pet. We saw our our pup’s great grandmother.

Is owning this many dogs a red flag or in the context do you think it’s ok? They were all clean and happy looking and she has a huge garden and seemed to lavish them with love.

Also is there anything else I should check?

Thanks

Of course it is.
My fear is this person has realised that churning out popular "on trend" cross puppies is cheaper and more lucrative than trying to find people to buy sub standard actual pedigrees.
Poor bloody dogs. No life stuck in kennels and bred from time and time again.

She usually breeds pure breeds, most of her dogs are pedigree but has done three litters of poodles crossed with that breed.

This will be because the Kennel Club puts welfare standards on how young/old, how often and how many litters bitches can have. Breeders will have cross-bred litters to get extra money outside of this. She sounds a holy nightmare, to be honest.

Some of these Poodle crosses are very appealing, I get that, but I honestly have never seen a breeder of any of them who isn't out and out breeding for money.

People bang on about how all breeds were started by crossing other breeds, which is obviously true - but for a purpose, with any dogs that didn't make the grade removed from breeding programmes, and with an aim of producing dogs that would breed true. The Poodle cross craze is nothing like this, it is shameless constant breeding of first crosses for money, pure and simple.

Some of the crosses are utterly ridiculous too. Someone phoning in to Radio 2 this week had bought a Springer x Poodle cross - why on earth would anyone cross a breed that is genetically pre-disposed to spend its life diving in to 'heavy cover' with a dog that matts like a Poodle. I suppose they think the groomer will just clip all the knots off every 8 weeks, while the poor dog has to live with it in between.

And obviously, every family who wants a dog now thinks the Poodle cross is the ideal dog for them, nothing else would ever do. Shows a complete lack of research and intelligence, to be honest. There are far better breeds for most families, which are more dependable for temperament, health, size and coat when bred properly.

Hey ho, there will never be an end to it.

Poodle cross springer! Bloody hell that sounds like a nightmare. Brains and energy. You would NEVER be able to tire it out or give it enough mental stimulation!

On the bright side, for employment purposes, setting up as a dog groomer must be a goldmine these days. An endless stream of customers without an ounce of knowledge as to whether the results are good or bad - and obviously no skill required, just a pair of sharp clippers!

Poodle cross springer! Bloody hell that sounds like a nightmare. Brains and energy. You would NEVER be able to tire it out or give it enough mental stimulation!

Yep. It's got a cute name with 'oodle' in it though, so that's what matters ...

I can completely understand cross breeding where the aim is to create a dog for a particular job. Be that flyball or working as a sheepdog!
But because it looks cute? Not good enough.
I really wish people would choose dogs based on their lifestyle and the breed traits. I love lots of breeds that I wouldn't own because they need more exercise or grooming or mental stimulation than I am prepared to give.

Off topic, but I met a ‘sproodle’ a few weeks ago. The owner found it very strange that her dog spent the whole walk flushing out in the bracken... um..
Then again I have also met a ‘cockerpoo’ owner who was shocked that her dog chased rabbits. The cross of two gundog breeds, weird that...

Face
Palm.

Off topic too, but friends of friends have bought a Pomski. Yes, a husky crossed with a pomeranian. So it makes a cute husky looking 'small' dog . They are not outside people at all, have toddler twins, and posted a video of the twins running up to it, grabbing at it, then running away...

FWIW I think poodle crosses are very cute, who wouldn't ? If I wanted one there are plenty in rescue.
The nicest pedigree dog I have met recently was a standard poodle, she was bloody gorgeous! (again, plenty coning up in rescue here)

double eye roll....

I'm not going to get into the debate of cross breeds as I think people will choose what they want to buy irrespective of what other people think. However, OP you aren't guaranteed to know which traits of the two breeds you might end up with so make sure you are happy with potentially getting the worst of both of them.

I grew up with a rescued cross breed. Before taking him on my mum researched the very worst that both breeds had to offer. She decided she could cope with it if he was the worst of both!

The sad thing is, that there are already dog breeds out there that offer exactly what a poodle x promises: good for allergy sufferers, good family dog, easy(ish) to train, medium sized, cute looks, ... the only thing that is lucking is the exotic name!!!

And than let's not forget, that the first serious 🐩 x was for working as an assistance dog. They were never intended to be popular, uncontrollable pooches.

Probably a "Labradoodle" then. Or a mongrel.

Good luck. I've known a few over the years and they've all been insane, barky and super destructive. I hope you don't like your house, garden or belongings.

I’ve said it before but I think public misconceptions about poodles have played a huge part in the surge in popularity of poodle crosses.

People want the coat but see poodles as useless frou frou dogs so think the perfect solution is a poodle crossed with a “proper” dog.

It’s a real shame as poodles are super dogs in their own right and have so much more to offer than just being crossed with every other breed under the sun.

Poodles are completely proper dogs!
Far too bright for me though!

If you want a poodle cross just get a poodle. Awesome dogs. No need to cross them.

To be honest I am still not getting why it’s ethical to breed for shows but not for pets. Is taking part in a show better for a dog than being a loved family pet? Even if that means breeding characteristics that we know cause discomfort or health problems?

I just don’t get it.

I do get why you need to avoid breeders who make bitches have too many litters, or don’t bring the pups up inside, or don’t do health tests and checks, or don’t vet perspective owners, or don’t socialise the puppies, or don’t require unwanted dogs to be returned. But if you find a breeder who does all that but breeds crosses why is that inherently bad?

Most show dogs ARE loved family pets.

Most show dog breeder are trying to breed out health problems and poor physical characteristics.

Some of the dogs you see on Crufts on TV are extremely bad examples of the breed and are quite often from other countries.

It's bad to breed crosses for all the reasons stated above and more! Anyone breeding poodle crosses are doing it for the money. End of. They aren't trying to better a beloved breed. They aren't breeding dogs for "allergy reasons" as the puppies may not inherit the poodle coat. They are breeding solely for money. There are crosses on rescue. If you are so adamant on not listening to advice from actual dog owners and lovers, why can you not rescue without adding to it?

Because you want to buy one. And nothing anyone says will change your mind, clearly. I hope one day you realise how bad this is and feel suitably guilty. Probably after you've sent your dog off to a rescue center.

I always say that if you can find a breeder of crosses who:

• does all the appropriate health checks (BVA, DNA tests, NOT just a 'vet check')
• rears to superb standards
• doesn't over-breed, particularly taking alternate registered and crossbred litters - avoiding licensed breeders like the plague is often a good start here
• vets prospective owners properly
• takes lifelong responsibility for all the puppies they breed

... then I have no issue with them, although it's not what I'd choose.

Good luck with finding such a breeder, though. I've never seen one yet. Lots have very good marketing websites to fool people they do all that, but even those are usually very easy to see through when you know something about dogs and breeding.

I don't understand why if people want an "oodle" they don't just get a poodle? Sorry, that is missing the point of the thread rather!

I have a rescued Spanish water dog; there are several variants of the breed (Portuguese water dog is one!) and they look very similar to these cockerpoos running around our area. They are wonderful dogs in their own right and deserve a bit more notoriety imo. :) Ours is a bit sorry for herself this week, after her spay op. But she is a dream, she really is.

Owned by.
Pictures or it's not true!

If we ever got another dog it would either be a poodle or a rescue greyhound. Both are fab.