Dogs from Romania - Your thoughts/experiences?

[skyblu]

We are looking to get a dog, but would like an older/steadier dog, rather than a puppy.
I have found a website of an organisation that does amazing work rescuing dogs from Romania. They have kennels out there, work with the dogs to assess behaviours/characters. Neuter, de-flea, worm them, socialise, walk & play with them and get them ready & all paperwork sorted for travel. Some come to the UK to foster home first, but most do not.
So this means in many cases you do not actually meet the dog. You go all through the adoption process, have homecheck, can speak on phone to the rescuers etc....then once all in place, doggy flys over and is yours.
There are some truely beautiful dogs & because they are crossbreeds, far more choice for my size requirements etc.
Just feels such a massive decision to rescue one without meeting it at all & going by someone else's word & description over the phone. And such a big deal to put puppy through (flying over, new country, environment everything). For me, once commitment made, Thats IT. Doggy is mine for life. I would never decide no & give it back to rescue, that's not an option after putting it through travel/change etc. It would HAVE to work no matter what.
So, is it a brave/ridiculous/crazy thing to do? People must do it as the charity has been going a while! Any experiences of anyone doing this? Is it better for very experienced dog owners only?
(Not saying I'm going to do this, I'm just exploring all options/doing my research).

[supergrains]

I also find the trade in puppies in this country horrifying, (one of the main reasons I wanted a rescue) that is the main contributor to lots of British stray dogs being put down, not dogs being rescued from abroad.
I hand on my heart, don't think I would have ever found a suitable dog for me, the right size etc for my lifestyle, through British rehoming charities. I have had no problems of prejudice from Vets/dog-class trainers/insurers/kennels/dog walkers/daycare/groomers/other dog owners about my dogs being Romanian. The dogs are beautiful, friendly, charming dogs, very admired wherever they go, people love them and always want to know what breed they are (no idea, a real mix) plus they are small enough for me to pick up on the tube etc, and healthy enough to go running/bike rides with me. Hopefully because they aren't designer dogs or pedigrees they will live long and healthy lives.

[Freewheelin74]

PLEASE READ If you are thinking of adopting from Romania...
Had a terrible experience really. I'd never really thought of getting a dog from Romania but knew someone who works at fostering them. I've had dogs all my life and come from a family of big dog lovers. We were looking for a dog and was approached to try adopting from Romania by this friend. I've always had rescue dogs and not worried about breeds as long as the dog was good with children, people and was placid and friendly. I was shown this gorgeous dog from Romania looking for a family. Was told it was placid, friendly and would make a fantastic addition to our family. I contacted the rescuer in Romania keeping up daily on the dog and how she was getting on. She had injections, vet checks etc and was able to come to England a month later.

The dog was to travel in a crate from Romania through several countries and over to England. We were able to track her journey via Facebook and saw that there was a timetable for her to arrive to us. We were very excited and finally I got a call to say a van was nearby and could I be ready to receive the dog. I did have reservations regarding the way that the travel and journey were handled. I felt like I was in the dark for a lot of it but felt that these people can only be helping these dogs. The van arrived and 2 people got out, grabbed the dog, handed her to me and gave me her passport and papers and drove off. The whole process took approx 2 minutes. I found that very dodgy. I had been home checked however so lay my concerns to bed.

The dog was very very nervous and quiet. (I am not referencing by name or sex because I don't want to be outed). I left it to its new surroundings as it needed to acclimatise to its new situation. It was very nervous and I let it approach and get to know us. As I have said, I am very experienced with dogs and followed procedures regarding research I had done integrating the dog to its new life. Then we encountered the following problems:-

• dog wasnt house trained. We were told it was.
• everytime we entered the room, it went ballistic, barking, snapping and growling.
• it would come a sit with us. Then suddenly turn round and bite me and OH. (I've never been bitten before by a dog)

-attacked my father viciously.
-on a walk would have attacked people/dogs if not on a lead

The final straw came when we were sitting with the children one day. Dog was fine then suddenly flew, bit my dd on the face and ds 2 inches above the genital area. This is all after a couple of weeks. I called my friend immediately as I couldn't face my children in any more danger. Came round immediately and my friend said the dog was unsafe and needed to go ASAP. My friend was able to take the dog to a behaviourist and the behaviourist would be able to deal eith it. Kept in touch with the behaviourist who thankfully was able to take the dog on. She also said the dog should have never been rehomedwith children. It took the best part of a year for the behaviourist to train the dog. And find a new owner for it after several potential owners pulling out due to the dogs problems. Incidentally, another person who's dog travelled with mine, had to visit the behaviourist when his dog went took a bad dislike to a family member and "went" for him.

I wasn't prepared for the vitriol from the rescuer and accusations from her followers on social media accusing me of terrible things regarding my decision to re home this dog. It was god awful and they were terribly cruel and distressing saying the dog wasn't safe with me etc etc. Horrible.

The dog has been rehomed now thankfully. But my god. I'd never adopt from abroad ever. Awful awful scenario. Don't do it there are a lot of charlatans out there.




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[Krusten]

I've just handed back a Romanian pup to the charity I got it from as it was severely food aggressive, generally had no bite inhibition and it's prey-drive was the highest I've seen (birds, runners, school kids, cars (!!!), vans, buses, cats). We have 3 kids and 2 cats, the charity knew this, we met the dog before as he was in a local kennel as "foster". They said we'd be ideal. The dog bit everyone (charity called this "mouthing" but with no bite inhibition this is biting) which caused bruising/tearing every time and had my kids very upset. He chased the cats relentlessly even when they were hissing and tearing up his face. He lunged at my husband every time he tried to call him off the worktops/put his lead on. He bit my daughter in an aggressive attack when she tried to stop him eating a crisp pack (she was worried about the onion risk to dogs plus risk of eating the bag). He did the same to me several times when we tried to get him off our food/units. I have lifelong experience of dogs including training and I'd never met any dog like it. He, and many others, are hard-wired to find and defend food/possessions to the nth degree. The charity were absolutely rubbish at support and are refusing to refund us or even admit they made a dangerous mistake. Take a Romanian dog if you dare but I'd recommend a bitch, pup that they can guarantee has had its mother and litter mates. No street dogs. Basically dingos.

[Archie69]

I am in the UK and admin on a Romanian dog rescue and all our dogs are socialised. We also have a very supportive adopters' group. You may not like the idea of foreign dogs coming here, but hundreds are coming every week. I know a woman who had 2 large pedigree dogs bought from UK breeders and she couldn't understand why I supported foreign dogs. They eventually died and now she has 3 from Cyprus. And if British dogs are so perfect, why do we have so many behaviourists?

[Freewheelin74]

I think it's more to do with unscrupulous people making money out of these dogs. Lying and sending dogs which are not compatible to potential owners please see pp. Of course there are kind and wonderful rescue services out there but in my opinion, the import business needs to be regulated and some kind of legislation. To ensure that potential owners are getting what they expect and have paid for. I'm only talking out of my experience as the dog we acquired was wild and bit my son 2inches from his genital area. This was an unprovoked attack. Same when she bit my daughter on the face. I'm afraid her behaviour was wild. And agree with pp that we had a smiler experience. When she was taken back and our pockets were 250 pounds lighter, she cod not be homed for over a year due to behaviour and being a dangerous dog.

After she had been surrendered, the women who ran the charity slated me all over Facebook stating I had given up on her and that I had let her down. This was so unprofessional. She also had the gall to state that at least thr dog was safe now!!! She also had her followers slating me for giving the dog up as well. It was a case of looking after my children. A horrendous experience.

[Archie69]

Freewheelin74 - I am sorry that you had a bad experience and I don't understand why any rescue would send a wild dog but it is hardly 'making money'. It costs about £200 in transport alone and the dogs we send have a passport, chip registered to the adopter for free, all the standard UK vaccinations plus rabies and kennel cough and are neutered. We charge £270 so £70 for everything. Try getting a rabies jab for that let alone neuter the dog. And to be fair, UK dogs can be unsuitable and returned to the rescues even after the prospective adopters have met it first.

[Krusten]

Freewheelin74, that sounds hellish. The charity should have refunded as they will have rehomed the dog and charged again. Paws2rescue (yes, I'm naming them) have stonewalled us and prior to that asked my 12yo daughter where the stitches were if she was really bitten! I am writing the entire tale down and taking it to the Charities Commission.
I agree too there should be better regulatory control of these international rehoming groups and that would give us all more reassurance and a body to take issues to.

[Freewheelin74]

Krusten it sounds like we both had a lucky escape. I just hated the way the "charity" made me out to be irresponsible and callous for handing the dog to a behaviourist. It feels like they operate a conveyor belt of dogs to get them out and rehomed. The more that can go out the merrier. The bahavourist stated that the dog would need months of rehabilitation and then only go to new owners with experience of troubled dogs and definitely not any children. It took nearly a year and a lot of hard work to find new owners. I have had several rescue dogs from the UK and have never had a problem with them. They were beautiful and we were matched with them perfectly. Such a shame there isn't the legislation available for rescue from abroad.

[Alicejacks]

We have a spanish rescue. She is a scent hound and has had a really tough life prior to her retirement with us. We had been looking in the uk for about a year with no luck so eventually started looking at international rescuing and saw her appeal straight away.
She has had quite significant health and toilet training issues to work through but she has the sweetest soul and we all just adore her. She is currently snorting away at the bottom of my bed.

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

if British dogs are so perfect, why do we have so many behaviourists?

Don't be silly, no one has claimed that British dogs are perfect. Any dog can develop issues, but the life of a foreign rescue dog (mother stressed during pregnancy, experiences on street, lack of early exposure to friendly humans, having to defend resources to survive, finding the transport traumatic etc etc) adds risk factors.

As far as I'm aware there are not yet any proper studies on it, but everything I hear from within the sector is that while some foreign rescues are unscathed, a higher proportion of them then British born dogs find themselves with significant behavioural problems.

[Freewheelin74]

Agree Avacadoes. I know the dog I adopted had 2 litter mates. Both had significant behaviour problems too. 1 was a year old before he was adopted. I believe this dog had severe problems. I agree more studies on this would be so beneficial. As stated the dog I adopted was wild with zero socialisation skills. Others on the same drop off had the same problems with their dogs. UK charities would have never rehomed these dogs as they would be deemed dangerous.

[Archie69]

And who is going to 'fund' these studies? Not all foreign rescue dogs are adopted 'wild' - maybe you should have done your research? My rescue has a FB page and group and we post lots of photos and updates and the dogs are all in pens in my rescuer's back garden. The problem is, they are too well cared for and people think with their hearts rather than their heads and pass them over for the sad looking dogs on death row. We have had a couple of failed adoptions. One woman didn't house train the dog, thinking that leaving the back door open was enough. Sent her back and asked for another one. Another rejected the puppy after 2 days because she had been chewing (but not eating) stones in the garden. The dog's new owner takes her to the care home where she works to spend time with the residents. No one is forced to adopt from abroad but more and more are choosing to.

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

ASAB would be the sort of organising that might fund such research; they are highly respected, run the CCAB (gold standard behaviourist accreditation scheme) and offer grants to researchers. www.asab.org/

If you are so certain that foreign rescue dogs do not have higher rates of behavioural problems than British born dogs, you would welcome such research to prove your beliefs.

I would question how many make a genuine choice to adopt from abroad. Time and again I hear people saying that they tried a UK based rescue first but were turned down because they had young children, worked full time and lived on the 14th floor of a tower block, but the foreign rescue accepted them. Or that they looked around a rescue centre but didn't find a dog that fitted what they wanted (and were usually unwilling to wait or look further afield). While I'm sure you can find exceptions, more often than not, foreign rescues seem to be the second choice for people.

[Archie69]

Maybe you should apply for a grant from ASAB then and organise the research rather than expect someone else to do it? I am not saying that we shouldn't have research - just annoyed at people who always want someone else to organise for them.

And as you hear 'time and again' that people turned to a foreign rescue because they couldn't get a dog from a UK one, you must know a lot of people who have adopted from abroad so are perfectly suited to organise the research.

And at least they wanted to get a rescue dog. Breeders don't refuse to sell dogs to people who have young children, live in a tower block and work full time do they? In fact the vast majority of dogs in UK rescues were once brought from breeders and handed in because of behaviour problems. The local dog rescue I volunteer at seldom have dogs who can live with other pets.

[trendingorange]

I've had two lovely dogs from Romania, both look liked the sort of 'designer crosses' that are everywhere now and god knows what horrible conditions the mother and father of these pups live in (see them up for adoption on many tears).
I looked in UK rescues, I was never going to find the exact match, and I was recovering from losing an old dog who had died after being with me for 10 years so I didn't want to wait a year or 2.
It took me 6 months of looking abroad for my first Romanian rescue, it is a gamble, and I wouldn't do it with young children in the house (I probably wouldn't have any dog the same time as having toddlers - I like the quiet life!)
My rescues have surprised me with how little behaviour training they have needed, one is a bit barky, which I personally hate, but nowhere near as barky as my best friends born and bred uk dog. And I am used to big dogs, never had a small yappy so my tolerance is low.
I take them to dog training once a week, but mostly because I like the people there, I hardly ever do any additional training at home, they seemed to know how to behave with manners.
They are great with small children in my extended family, will play ball/be cuddled for hours and I've never seen any sign of grumpiness / aggression, although I know with any dog it's always a possibility.
I'm so glad I was a bit braver and more open minded than some people who must have a puppy - even if it is from a puppy farm.

[Meredith12]

There's a rescue near ours that brings in Romanian Dogs. Last year, they were offering some really cute looking pups of a particular breed, not known in this country. A quick Google showed that they are a potentially aggressive and dominant breed. I think it's irresponsible personally in cases like this and people should adopt dogs from this country. But just my opinion.

[Maelstrop]

A friend got one. It needed painkillers for an issue. As soon as it was feeling better due to the painkillers, it started showing its true personality, biting everyone.

Romanian rescues are street dogs. Not toilet trained, not socialised. Over 1000 dogs are put to sleep in U.K. rescues weekly. Why can’t you get one from the U.K.?

[supergrains]

I think this thread must slightly distorted with mostly a negative picture, there are literally thousands of dogs coming from Romania, Spain, Cyrus etc. Most of them must be ok, otherwise the trade would dry up pretty quick wouldn't it?

[supergrains]

Mael I think most of those dogs are not suitable for rehoming for one reason or another, or the usual breeds that most people are wary of and don't stand a chance of getting rehomed because of overbreeding/saturation of the market (putting it bluntly)

[Archie69]

supergrains - exactly. Every other dog walker I meet has a foreign dog. None of them are aggressive. The Romanian rescue I am admin on has sent a few hundred to the UK over the years. We provide a lifetime's rescue back up and we wouldn't be able to cope if they were aggressive and failed adoptions.

Mael - no dog is toilet trained to start with. My first dog was British and 10 when I rescued her and her owner had died. In the short time she was in kennels she forgot her house training and we had to start again.

Meredith - exactly what breed is this? Any dog has the potential to be aggressive. We are told that Pit Bulls are a banned breed because of their aggression but in the USA most are loving, friendly dogs.


The (American) study concluded that dog attacks were most common with the following breeds:
Labrador retrievers: 13.3%
Pit Bulls: 8.4%
German Shepherds: 7.8%
Rottweilers: 3.9%
Chows: 3.5%

UK Dogs that bite the most:
Chihuahua
Bulldog
Pit Bull
German Shepherd
Australian Shepherd
Lhasa Apso
Jack Russell Terrier
Cocker Spaniel
Bull Terrier
Pekingese
Papillion

[Sinuhe]

Adopting a dog from abroad is big business. It's also demeaning and patronising towards the people in the country they are coming from.
plenty of Dogs in UK rescue centres looking for new homes.

[Archie69]

Sin - "It's also demeaning and patronising towards the people in the country they are coming from. "

The majority of the rescuers are locals. They don't seem to feel patronised or demeaned. They are just happy to help stray and abandoned dogs. Can you imagine being a dog lover and passing starving puppies in the streets every day and not being able to help?

[supergrains]

'Demeaning & patronising' ?

I imagine most of the people in animal rescue bound for the UK based in Romania are:

1. Animal lovers who know the culture in the UK is very different from Romania, and the animal will mostly have wonderful homes and lives.
2. Employed, It's a paid job. Romania is a very very poor country and any way of trading with them brings money into the country and to the people.

There is obviously a market there, I don't really see the harm, I agree the situation isn't ideal. I heard that Romania has 2 million stray dogs. They could all be culled I guess, a lot of culling is going on, but adopting some overseas where there is a demand, if done properly has got to be as best a solution to the problem as any?
It's unrealistic to think that 2 million dogs can be neutered. Most people would agree that the dog population needs to be reduced in Romania and they are trying to do that.

[nellieellie]

Romanian street dogs run the risk of appalling ill treatment in their home country - if they end up in kill shelters, they could starve to death and be eaten by their cage mates, or die from untreated wounds, parasites or injury. I know that I have made a world of difference to my lovely girl. Yes, she is reactive with dogs she doesn’t know. But she is perfect in every other way. Wants to please, is so gentle with people, children and dogs she knows. Very loving, calm.
I would adopt another Rommie, but I’d either foster first, or find one that was being fostered in the U.K. already. “Give a dog a home” have a number of dogs already in the U.K. It helps to know what you’re getting. Yes, some need an experienced dog owner, others need a consistent and patient approach to toilet training, most need time to get their confidence. But they can be the sweetest dogs.

[FrenchyQ]

I have a Romanian rescue dog....he had been in a rescue centre pretty much most of his life (he was 2 when we got him). He had distemper when he was a puppy and lost most of his teeth, no one wanted him as he's a little odd looking and his tongue sticks out the side of his mouth most of the time. We fell in love with him and he was on his last chance as the rescue he was in was being closed down and all the dogs would be euthanised.
Other than him having really bad anxiety when travelling in a car, he is the most loyal trusting, loving dog i have ever met.