Puppy Survival thread part 4

[GooodMythicalMorning]

Puppy's getting bigger!: continuation of Bitey's thread. If anyone wants to join feel free.

Clay - It's very early days and you are still all getting to know each other.

I'd just be careful that you are not inadvertently rewarding the behaviour you don't want. She wanted to get the cat, made a fuss and was let out ( excellent result from her point of view), then got to sleep next to you on the sofa (even better) and then got a game (wow!).

Next time when you are settling her try and avoid any exciting stimulus around bedtime. Life should be so boring that she might just as well go to sleep! I have a cloth over Elfpup's crate at bedtime to cut out as much stimulation as possible.

I quickly learnt the difference in Elfpup's whines, his "distress" whine is different from his "protest " whine.... I respond to one very fast, the second, not so much! His behaviour also deteriorates when he's tired and if he gets worked up in the evening then he's usually over tired - pretty much like a toddler!

I think you're right Elphame. I couldn't see it at the time. I didn't realise the cat had come in, I just heard her barking and presumed she was distressed so let her out and then realised what had happened. I guess it's because I'm torn between wanting her to bond with us and setting firm boundaries.

In the end I left her on the sofa to sleep and she was fine until this morning. She's had a few accidents today. Feel like I'm undoing all the training her fosterers did with her. Is it ok to leave her in her crate if she's barking?

This is my plan of action:

1. Start working on her cat aggression. We did a little training this morning based on the article cornflake posted up thread. I will do this little and often.

2. get a baby monitor and shut the kitchen door on an evening so that the cats can't get in. The crate has a cover so I will put the flap down as well.

3. start working on a routine so we can wind down from say 10.30 so she's ready for bed around 11 and in her crate by 11.30 (hopefully asleep). Can anyone recommend a good crate training guide?

Does this sound like a good plan?

I'm worried that she isn't getting enough exercise/stimulation. All she has done so far really is cuddle on the sofa chewing her chews with the odd bout of running around. She does this sort of scan of the downstairs growling at the noises etc. but I guess it's still all so unfamiliar. She still won't go outside so walks are out at the moment. I bought a load of toys for her but they're all too big. I need to get some smaller ones. She does like to chase cardboard tubes around the room though.

Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon and I should just relax a bit.

Clay my advice would be that one event does not alter the behaviour of a pup - I was convinced that what I did would ruin the dog! In the end I just went with what I wanted and not what others thought I should be doing and it worked out fine. As for stimulation - don't rush her. I think I rushed my boy a bit when really there was no need to rush at all. He wouldn't walk outside at all to begin with, he was petrified but he's no issue at all now so please don't think anything at this age is permanent!

Thanks Bitey, just dropped him off which was okay but did have a little cry as I left. Our previous dog passing away in a routine test has really impacted me leaving them at the vets now! Luckily the vets allowed him to be sedated while I stayed with them which I appreciated. Just been to do a food shop to take my mind off it and bought them a big box of quality steeets to say thanks.

He's alive!!!!! Yayyy! Get to pick him up at 4. Thank god.

Great news, such a relief . Lots of tlc tonight.

Clay - agree with Skeleton ( glad your little one is OK - I have that joy to come) one offs don't count especially in the early days. She's had an awful lot to cope with in a short period so taking it gently is sensible. Elfpup was totally spoiled for the first day or two and I've been gradually placing and enforcing boundaries as he gets more confident. I think I've lost the sofa battle but I'm holding firm on no upstairs!

You'll soon get to know the timbre of her barks for different things. If Elfpup complains when he's put in the crate for a day time nap he just gets a firm "shush" from me and 5 minutes later he's sound asleep.

I wouldn't rush getting her outside - she will when she's ready and feels confident and safe in the house. She doesn't yet know that this is not just another temporary staging post in her life.

You could possibly try a trail of really yummy treats to tempt her out if she's still reluctant in a few days time but don't force it. Elfpup is a very chilled pup but he still doesn't like being in the garden on his own. He has to have company.

Oh my fucking life. Wooster hound has settled in and is displaying all the glorious parts of his personality that he kept hidden for the first couple of weeks... his adult teeth are now in so he is exercising them by eating everybody and everything except the vast repertoire of dog toys. He now has decided he doesn't like being left, even for the duration of swimming lessons and comprehensively shat in my bedroom and dd's. He is chasing the cats and the hens like they are some kind of cabaret for his entertainment. Training starts on the 10th of November and I am fucked if I know how we are going to survive til then... time for his "crate room" again, in the utility when we have to go out or even upstairs for kids bedtime as he eats their toys if he is allowed up or barks at the bottom of the stairs if left below the stairgate -which he seems to be able to secretly jump, hence the poo-a-rama, unless the plumber left the gate open. I am very glad I read about 'puppy blues tho puppy is pushing it or I would be even more stressed and worriedmthan I am...

Mrs those teeth are bloody sharp when they want to be. I remember mine used to launch himself at me and hang on to my jeans with his nippy teeth (ouch).

If you think he can jump the baby gate you can get specific pet ones which I think are higher.

Skeleton hows the fellow today. Hope he has slept the anaesthetic off and is now on the mend. Our first night was awful with him standing about, wobbling and crying

I am just waiting for our vets to open. BitetDog isn't well, vomiting, shivering and not himself. He isn't a vomity dog at all so this is very unlike him. He's currently under a blanket on the sofa next to me fast asleep.

Hi clay, my advice would be to use this period whilst she is settling in and not wanting to go outside to do lots of 5 minute sessions of training throughout the day. It will tire her out, start teaching her to listen to you and improve your bond much quicker than allowing her to sleep on the sofa will. When I was having nightmares with recall I consulted a trainer who quickly identified that my excitable pup had no focus on me. She gave me exercises to do to improve this and impulse control exercises, good for controlling chase instincts and told me to play with her more and walk her less.
The others are right though, we all find ways of managing behaviour that suit us. I used to feel I had spent so much effort during the day with pup that I bloody well was going to have a peaceful evening. We used to wear her out late afternoon with a short walk and games, give her supper and she would sleep for a while. When she woke raring to go again she got ignored whilst we were preparing our food and then brushed and combed and cuddled, given a tripe stick or a fish skin to chew. TV went on, pup in her comfy bed, out for a wee at 10pm and back to bed. I think they do take a long time to relax after a busy day but a relaxed pup should sleep better at night too.

Wooster hound is operating a dirty protest. How can a small hound produce so much shit? He was unpleased at being left downstairs in the dining room and did 6 shites in the playroom, by breaking in through the temporary blocked off opening... where is he keeping it all? He'd been out for a final wee and poo immediately before bedtime.
I'm sure he is settling a bit but it is really hard work...

Thank you so much for the advice everyone. I'm finding this much harder than I anticipated. You've all hit the nail on the head, I'm anxious that each time I go wrong, I'm creating bad habits but I suppose what I do longer term is more important.

Sorry to hear about BiteyDog Bitey, I hope it's a short lived bug. MrsWooster, I'm feeling your pain but it's only been 4 days for us. Is that a new record?

Had a mixed 24 hours. Yesterday was dry so ClayPup decided she actually does like going outside. Was really lovely to see her zooming around and she's pretty good at fetch, dropping the ball for us. She's also happy to toilet outside but I think she's confused as using her puppy pad is hit and miss now.

Crate initially went well last night then she started whining. I ignored at first then it progressed to barking on and off and scratching. I waited until she was quiet and calm (so as not to reward) and let her out but I didn't say much to her, kept the lights off and the crate open and slept on the sofa but didn't let her up. I presume she decided to sleep in the crate as she couldn't get on the sofa with me. Woke up to a few wees on the floor and a poo (but it was the first solid one she has done).

I've realised what is throwing me so much when deciding what to do. Because she was in foster care for a week before I got her, they had already done some training with her and got her sleeping in her crate 9.30pm till 5am but she had free rein of the downstairs during the day and using puppy pads but they are experienced dog owners and have three others. So it was bound to be different here. I think I need to ignore what they have done and start from scratch. Ideally i would eventually like her to have all her naps in the crate because I will have to go back to work at some point after which she will be going to my mum's a couple of days a week (I will be working from home the rest of my part time hours).

I really like the idea of doing short training sessions with her during the day. I've been worried about giving her too many treats. Is it ok to give a lot of treats if they are different things? She also enjoys chews but I bought her some that are like a beef jerky wrapped around a rawhide stick and she's worked out how to get the beef jerky off in about 30 minutes (it would last her a few hours at least before). I keep her pigs ear in her crate but she doesn't seem as interested in that. I need to get some more and varied chews I think.

Would anyone mind posting their general routine with their pups? I think I would be better with a sort of schedule so I can see where to fit things in. I've no idea when to start winding down in the evening as she sleeps most of the day then wants to play at night. I've googled this but the articles just talk about what you should be doing in an average day rather than with timings. Finding a lot of the advice online contradictory too .

Mine needs a poo before bedtime, then one when he gets up, then about another 1-2 in the morning depending on how much jumping about and exercise he does, followed by maybe a dinner time one if he feels like it

Clay right now don't worry about giving her too many treats during training. I never bothered to cut the food down for the amount of treats because he used to burn all the calories up anyway running about and training.

I would start as you want for your schedule. We are really early risers so we wind down straight after he has eaten at 6pm and he tends to sleep around 7 with a quick toilet break before we go to sleep later on, but we are awake around 5-6 each morning. We usually do a small play session before his dinner so he is hungry and the food then makes him sleepy.

I am probably not the best person to advise as we have never stuck to a rigid schedule because he does different things each day and I quite like the fact that he doesn't then expect this thing to happen at a specific times so we often vary dinner and play times. Probably the best routine my dog recognises is that after both of us has had dinner and we leave the kitchen to go into the living room or bedrooms then it's quiet time (mainly because the kitchen is bigger and easier to play or train in) and he is expected to settle his bed or with us on the sofa

Clay I'm convinced Elfpup eats his own weight in dog treats each day! His puppy class trainer says not to worry about it and that he will eventually be weaned off them.... I haven't yet bought him any of the chews - he loves his split antler which gives him plenty to chew at but no calories!

Have you organised some puppy training classes yet? They are a huge help, both in practical training advice and reassurance.

I was just wondering why you let her out of the crate when she went quiet? If you'd left her do you think she'd have just gone to sleep there?

Routine? Well Elfpup's current day looks like this if we are at home

6.30 DP gets up, lets pup out of crate and outside for a wee, gives him breakfast and then goes to work leaving pup in the kitchen with his toys

8.00 I get up. Pup is usually back in his crate either asleep or chewing his antler

9.00 - a walk. We are usually out 30 mins to an hour. Pup is off lead for most of it

10.00 gentle wind down post walk play including 5-10 minutes practice of new tricks. So far he's cracked sit, down, to me (his recall command) and "shake paw". He's almost got "wait" but his impulse control isn't that good yet!

10-30 -12 nap. He wants it to be on my lap. I want him to be in his bed. Today he's pulled my walking fleece off a chair and is asleep on that..

12 lunch

Afternoon - generally play, training, maybe an hour in the garden chasing balls and nosing around with me trying to work around him. I'm getting very good at hiding treats to keep him busy independently for a while. If I'm lucky he'll nap for an hour.

4.30 DP comes home and takes pup for another short walk and then takes him into the garden to "help"

6.00 supper

6.05 more play and training. By 7 he's usually flaked out on the floor fast asleep.

11.00 woken from floor, last wee and put in his crate.

At least one evening a week we go to the pub with friends. He happily sleeps on my lap for the evening. Today however I have the local Mensa lunch so it's a gastropub over lunchtime. I am a little apprehensive about how he's going to behave!

We are all slowly cracking up here it seems like we are constantly wiping pee up off the floor it's a never ending cycle no matter how often she is bought out it makes no difference .She is constantly weeing I've never seen anything like it and drinking her water bowl dry all the time too. I haven't a moments peace I'm down to my last nerve if I'm honest

BeThe it really is the puppy blues. I could have throttled anyone who told me they had an easy time with their puppy. Could she be peeing with excitement as well (mine still does excitement wees and he is now 1 ).

Well we will be at the vets appointment later. Whilst BiteyDog seems better and managed to eat some food he vomited it up about 20 minutes later so I am going to get him checked over.

Thanks bitey I feel like a terrible person even writing it but I'm just unwell for the last few weeks and haven't been getting much help from everyone else in the family when it comes to stepping up and doing things with the pup .I'm just tired and cranky and fed up

I'd love to leave her outside to run about but our garden is huge and unsecured and next to a very dangerous road. I just don't have a minute in up to my eyes with the kids and other stuff and I can't realistically be bringing her out every 15 mins to wee I'd get nothing done at all !

Sorry to hear that biteydog isn't better let us know how you get on at the vets

You're so not a bad person. At one point I was sitting on the kitchen floor in tears, cuddling pup and telling her if I didn't bloody love her so much she would be going back.
Hope Bitey is better soon.
Skeleton glad it went ok.

BeThe so whilst I took on looking after the puppy we did agree in our house that the other tasks I typically did was to be divided out because it was getting far too much for me to do (actually got a cleaner in the end). Could you put your foot down and say they need to do more stuff around the house so you aren't running yourself into the ground?

Thanks BeThe and Wolfie. If it was runny poos I would shrug my shoulders and ignore but I think he has maybe vomited 3 times in his life and today it has been 8 times already. My fear is a blockage so just want them to put my mind at rest.

always better to get it checked. It really is. Good luck.

BeTheHokeyMan Have you considered a puppy play pen you can set up in the garden? Mine wasn't secure for the first couple of weeks and it was a life safer to have somewhere to put the pup in the garden where he couldn't get out into the road or snack on some of my very poisonous plants

Clay, I think a routine helps nervous or excitable pups settle down in their new home and learn what is expected of them. When cocodog was a pup, ours went like this..
6.15 DH got up for work, I took pup outside for the toilet, short wander around, back in for short training session and play, breakfast and back in crate for nap from 7.30 to 9 am
Out in garden for wee, short walk at around 9.30, mad over excited rush around the garden and house afterwards until silly tired, put in crate for a nap usually between 10.30 and 12.
Outside for a wee, then either bit more play/training or up and down the road for loose lead walking training. Her lunch, my lunch, DH gets home...we all collapse for a nap together in the living room between 2 and 3.30.
Outside for wee, try to ignore for awhile to get on with gardening etc, try to train her to accept being put in play pen outside with toys, not having it. Start giving her a stuffed Kong on the enclosed patio whilst we get on in the main garden, big success. Short walk at 5.Between 5 .30 and 6 puppy zoomies followed by cuddles and soothing or a short nap.
6pm supper, snooze, brush and groom followed by a tripe stick or similar. Out for a wee, settle down to sleep at around 7.30pm, out for last wee at 10 to 10.30 pm and in crate overnight.
This wasn’t something I set out with though, it sort of developed over the first couple of months and became much easier once reliably house trained. Much of the routine still exists except I don’t get up until 7 now to let her out, she does most of her wees and poos out on walks, has longer walks, plays fetch and tuggy rather than nutty chewing up plant pots and haring around getting up to mischief. Still gets over excited easily though.
Bethe, we also had large unsecured garden, we fenced off a smallish area of grass just off the patio...DH had to cut a tunnel through our thick beech hedge so she could access it. Made life much easier.
Bitey, hope biteydog ok.

We have tablets and rehydrating fluid. Going to feed him small amounts of bland food but if it continues into tomorrow probably going to need have X-ray to rule out obstruction. He is so much better and giving me 'feed me eyes'

Oh I know that look! Glad he's feeling better. Fingers crossed he's fine in the morning.