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Devastated and just don't know what to do

80 replies

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 18:23

Will try not to waffle too much but i don't want to drip feed so need to give the background.. I have 2 husky crosses who are normally well behaved. I don't let them off lead in open areas but I walk them daily in a secure field and they have great recall to whistle and voice.

I am at home with them 90% of the time (I work from home), however I do have to go to London for a day once or twice a month. A few months ago a delivery driver came when I was in London and opened our gate and literally just drove off and left it open. The dogs wandered off and were brought back about 45 minutes later by someone in the village. I only know about it as we have cameras set up and my husband thought, rather than returning the dogs, that someone was stealing them. I didn't recognise the person that retuned them and nobody left a note or anything. I kicked up a stink with the delivery company and put it behind me. I did buy a chain and padlock for the gate though.

All was fine until 2 weeks ago, I was busy working in my study and someone knocked the door. I was on a conference call, dogs were sleeping in the kitchen. I was distracted and stupid,y didn't close the front door properly (it is a stupid door that doesn't close properly unless you lift the handle), I went back to my computer and carried on with my conference call until about half hour later I heard the front door bang in the wind. I then realised I hadn't shut it properly and so I panicked and called the dogs.. they were not there. I rushed out and ran through the village blowing the whistle, nothing. I quickly called my dog walker and asked if she was nearby and could help look for them, which she did. Eventually after 2 hours we found them, literally 100 yards away in a small field at the back of one of my neighbours houses. I put their leads on and was just taking them home when someone shouted out to me that the dogs had killed some poultry. I was mortified, and gave her my details, she wasn't the owner of the poultry but knew the owners and could see the field from her house so had seen what happened. About half hour later the police turned up saying they had been called because the dogs were causing a nuisance. They came in and I explained what happened and that they didn't break out of the garden but I stupidly had ,eat the door open. They said the only damage they saw was one dead chicken and they weren't classing it as a police matter so it was up to me and the livestock owner to work out. Later that day the owner of the chickens came round carrying a dead cockerel. I apologised profusely and told him I was a twat and had left the door open and I would obviously pay for any damage. He said it was the second time they had been in his field and they had also chased his sheep. I was shocked as I had no idea what he meant by second time, I then realised it was him that had returned them after the delivery driver incident. I told him that I didn't know they had been at his place when they got out before, and as he hadn't left a note or come to tell me how could I know. He said he was going to be getting lots more sheep and that he would not be happy if my dogs got out and attached them again. I promised I would do everything I could to keep them from getting out.

Fast forward to today.. I was mowing the front lawn but the stupid lawn mower kept cutting out and I had no idea why so I called my husband to come and have a look at it. Stupidly he came out and yet again left the door open.. this time wide open. We were both standing there fiddling with the lawn mower and the dogs bolted and I mean bolted out of the house and ran at what must have been 30mph in the direction of the field. My husband took off after them and I ran to get a whistle and their leads. I was just leaving our drive when the dogs came trotting up quickly followed by the farmer. I had no idea what to say to him, he was furious and said he is calling the police and will get the dogs taken away. They didn't get a chance to harm any of his animals but that is only because he was there.

I am literally crying and shaking and have no idea what to do. The dogs are both very well trained, will recall without any issues when out but today they were not stopping for anything.. they knew they were going to the field and nobody was going to stop them. I have put a baby gate between the kitchen and the hall so they can't get to the front door now, but I think it may be too little too late. I just don't know what to do.. they get lots of exercise plus mind games every day.. I take them for a 3 mile walk in the morning and the evening every day plus I do lots of agility and scent training games with them so they're not bored. Just don't know if I can ever trust them again.. I now know that if they ever get out they WILL go back to the field and very likely will kill either more poultry or sheep.

Does anyone have any experience with dogs that have done this? Can they be trained out of it? I will do whatever I can to ensure they do not ever get out but mistakes happen and I just can't guarantee they will never get out again. Is reforming the only alternative?

OP posts:
MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 05/08/2017 21:18

It doesn't need to be your neighbours lone sheep either. You'll never be able to walk them off lead ever again in case they see a flock of sheep in the distance and bugger off. Any one with any livestock anywhere in the country will be perfectly allowed to shoot those dogs wherever you may be, on holiday or whatever. It happened near us a few years ago. Holiday makers, didn't know the area, let the dog off for a run in an empty field, dog goes through the hedge after the sheep next door, nobody could catch it so the farmer shot it. Was awful.

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 21:27

Oh gosh sorry I am clearly struggling with my phrasing. I totally utterly and completely understand that just chasing the sheep and killing even one bird or even if they didn't kill the thing just worrying them etc is awful and the owner/farmer has every right to be furious. i guess I just wanted to clarify that we don't live next to livestock farms, which seems to be what a few people were assuming, the field they got into is someone's back garden, although I realise that doesn't make any real difference because at the end of the day they were worrying animals regardless if they are farm animals or pets or just retired sheep being used for grass cutting.. I honestly do know that.

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umberellaonesie · 05/08/2017 21:32

Husky breeds can never be trusted off lead and to recall. It doesnt matter how much training you give them or how many times they perform perfect recall.in ideal situations.
They are dogs built to.run and once they start running especially when there is more than one it is unfair to.expect them to stop.
I have a husky who would run out of an open door. He is twelve now and all my children who have grown up with have understood the airlock systems we have in place to stop him running off.
He has escaped severaltimes over the years but it has always been due to somebody's error.
Take responsibility for yours and yourhusband actions. You let the dogs out. They have found some fun near y s d they won't forget.
Tighten up on your front door etiquette and keep then on lead at all times.

MeanAger · 05/08/2017 21:44

Goodness you have been incredibly careless! Once is an accident. 3 times is just plain careless. If you care about your dogs at all you will now have a foolproof system in place where this can never happen again. Both you and your DH have to follow it every time 100%. No more laziness or forgetting to shut a door. It's far too serious.

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 21:45

Umbrella, yes I know it was our fault and I have said as much. I also know I can not let them off lead in non secure fields. We are very lucky that the farmer across the road from us has a huge secure field that he lets us walk / run them on. I have just started bikejoring with them as well so that allows them lots of running opportunities. They are on lead with a caribaner linking it to their collar and their harness (in case one breaks) at any time we are not on the field.. my point about recall is that we have trained them on it, I would never rely on it but they have been extensively trained on recall.

We are both now very aware of what will happen if they ever get out again and we are taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.

OP posts:
Dontlaugh · 05/08/2017 21:45

I am sorry this happened you and I don't think you are minimising, or I didn't read it that way. You are a responsible dog owner but your dogs are now irresponsible unfortunately. They will be shot the next time they're seen near sheep as I grew up in a place where it was gospel that one a dog starting chasing sheep then that was it, really.
I'm unsure what you can do to fix it and don't know enough about the breed to know what motivates them. I hope it resolves, because imo if they chase again they are fair game for a shotgun.

Floralnomad · 05/08/2017 21:56

dontlaugh , the dogs aren't irresponsible they are doing what comes naturally , they don't know that they could be shot or what they are doing is wrong .

Dontlaugh · 05/08/2017 22:06

Thanks floral I suppose I'm trying to be kind to the op without laying blame on them? Either way, there's been good advice on the thread and speaking for myself once a dog starts chasing animals a switch is tripped and they don't usually stop.

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 05/08/2017 22:08

Dogs learn by experience. Anything that gets rewarded gets remembered and ingrained.

Good luck Op.

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 22:09

I am pretty confident they will never be in contact with sheep off lead again. There are no sheep anywhere near the only field they are allowed off lead in and I am going to make sure there is no way the front door can ever be left open again.Our garden is and always has been "husky proof" and I check it regularly and the garden gate has been chained and locked since the first "incident/fuck up". I will also see if I can get some training for them, I have been reading about dogs that have been successfully trained not to chase wildlife even after having killed some before. The training will be more for belts and braces in the really unlikely event they do get free again.

OP posts:
Pollyanna9 · 05/08/2017 22:18

Jesus, sorry OP but you are deluded and think it's all just been down to mischevous chance that it happened - you were clearly negligent! Training? The one that needs training is you OP! Training in how much exercise huskies need - good lord. They can easily run and exercise for 1 - 1.5 hour a day - how much time are your dogs getting?

However, regardless if you ran them behind a sled for 3 hours, YOU are responsible for keeping them secure in YOUR home, not allowing them to get out. You and no one else.

If you think you can train a dog to 'not chase wildlife' you really need a check up from the neck up, sorry! And why has it taken repeated incident of a. escaping and b. killing livestock, before you've got it under control? (not that I'm sure you have yet, actually).

Still, if you're happy for your dogs to be shot, that's ok I suppose.

CornflakeHomunculus · 05/08/2017 22:40

What breed are they crossed with out of interest?

Huskies are absolutely notorious for poor recall, their huge desire to run and their extremely high prey drive. These are all listed as negative points of the breed on the breed club site.

As well as making absolutely sure they cannot escape again I'd be doing some serious work on impulse control and also trying to give them an appropriate outlet for their prey drive. Flirt poles are fabulous for this as is lure coursing if you can find somewhere suitable to take them (or if you can set up a machine yourself in the secure field you have access to).

Emily Larlham (Kikopup on YouTube) has some purchasable videos on her Dogmantics Dog Training site one of which is specifically aimed at managing dogs with serious prey drive and might be worth a look.

If you do go down the route of involving a professional I'd definitely fond someone who is a member of at least one of these organisations to make sure you're getting someone reputable. There are a lot of trainers about with some very dubious ideas on how to "stock break" dogs.

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 22:50

Hey Pollyanna.. thanks for the input.. useful.

I walk them between 1 and 1.5 hours twice a day plus formal agility training twice a week and practicing the agility at home most days plus I play mind games etc..

I think I have repeatedly said it was my fault.. not sure why you think I am blaming someone else. I am also confused as to why you think the dogs are not exercised.. virtually any dog would wander out of an open door/gate it really is not because they were craving exercise or were bored. They actually didn't run particularly far.. the house they went to is about 100 yards away.. and today's fuck up by me happened within half hour of us getting back from a very long walk/bike ride.. they are not escaping they are being let out... by me.. I totally get that..

The training is to help ensure if it ever in the slimmest of chances ever get out again it may save their life/an innocent chicken or sheeps life. I won't get training and then just open all doors and gates and let them go wandering free.

OP posts:
UrsulaPandress · 05/08/2017 22:55

I can never understand why dogs run away. My dog follows me everywhere.

Having said that, you are on hiding to nothing trying to minimise this. You are totally negligent in your care of your dogs.

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 23:08

They are crossed with samoyed but definitely have more husky traits than Samoyed.. although both breeds are similar in their stubborn streaks and high prey drive. I have flirt poles the dogs love them.. we have a smaller indoor one and a bigger one we use outside. I watch a lot of kikopup's stuff on YouTube.. she is great and have worked on impulse control.. they don't get any food until They are sitting down and I tell them they can. They "leave it" brilliantly and when we are out walking I always get them to sit and long stay which they do without problem. I know they sound awful but they are so clever and I have spent hours every day training them.. my fuck up caused this.. not lack of training or lack of mental stimulation.. but thank you for your suggestions it is good to get a reply from someone who is really trying to help.

i found the trainer from that link.. someone posted it on here (mumsnet) a while ago and I looked it up then. I have spoken to her a few times but not seen her yet as the issues I was originally wanted to see her for resolved themselves (jumping up on visitors) but the trainer I used for the basic obedience says she is really good so I will see if she thinks she can help.

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crazycatgal · 05/08/2017 23:30

Now that they've got a taste for blood the dogs are going to keep going back to the field if they get out. You need to keep those dogs inside or they will be shot or taken away.

diamonte68 · 05/08/2017 23:38

Ursula.. what makes you say I am minimising my negligence. I have said over and over agin I left the door open - well my husband left it open today but no real difference we / I fucked up and let them out. I said it was an accident to maybe differentiate from me purposefully leaving it open.. I honestly thought I had closed it the first time but our front door is decidedly dodgy and if you don't lift the handle all the way up it just doesn't catch properly. Having said that it was still my fault I was not careful enough my actions and only my actions led to them getting out.

I do object to being told I am negligent in the care of my dogs though. I adore my dogs they are a huge part of my life. they are well trained well exercised, well fed and very much loved. They have a very secure garden which we customised just for them there are dig pits for them, tunnels, ramps and climbing frames plus special fencing and edging. I have spent a small fortune on training them as they are a special breed I wanted extra training. I have owned dogs for close on 30 years since I left home and before that my parents owned and bred dogs, I know how to look after them. I fucked up but I am sure i am not the only dog owner in this country that has not closed a door properly..

OP posts:
bluetongue · 05/08/2017 23:40

My front door is ever left open. It's that simple. I have a whippet that loves to run and him getting out has a high chance of him ending up injured or dead from a traffic accident. You make it become second nature to secure your dogs.

Dontlaugh · 05/08/2017 23:49

You are responsible dog owner but clearly have missed out on this particular thread.

fannydaggerz · 06/08/2017 00:05

You'll either need to build a massive fence or have the dogs on long leads in the garden so they can't bolt.

Pollyanna9 · 06/08/2017 00:06

YOU walk them 1 - 1.5 hours a day - yet you go to work and leave them in the garden for a dog walker to walk them - how long do they walk them for?

Sorry, but you're coming across as scatterbrained, deluded and idiotic to think that training or exercise will stop them running off if the doors/gates are left open! Even if they only went 2 ft beyond your boundary - and bit a child - would that be ok? How far they get is completely irrelevant - they shouldn't have had ANY opportunities to get out at all, certainly not after the first time! You are negligent - it wasn't bad luck at all.

Greyhorses · 06/08/2017 06:27

I once had a dog that got out and chased someone Blush
It was extremely embarrassing but we made sure it never happened again.

We also used an airlock type system. Dogs leashed before we even open the door. We would put them in a seperate room with the doors locked and we're constantly vigilant.

Never happened again but I did feel sick enough about it to be paranoid for the rest of his life.

diamonte68 · 06/08/2017 07:31

Pollyanna - If you read my response to you properly I said I walk them 1 - 1.5 hours TWICE a day. I only go to London twice a month, when I do my dog walker walks them twice a day as well. I also don't leave them in the garden, but they do have access to the garden while I am gone.

The one that needs training is you OP! Training in how much exercise huskies need - good lord. They can easily run and exercise for 1 - 1.5 hour a day - how much time are your dogs getting? It was you that brought up the exercise piece, hence why I gave you the details of what exercise they get.

Sorry, but you're coming across as scatterbrained, deluded and idiotic to think that training or exercise will stop them running off if the doors/gates are left open!
Can you point me to where I said that training or exercise will stop them running off if the doors/gates are left open? I will point out again, I mentioned the amount of exercise they get in response to your question as you seemed to think I simply didn't realise that huskies needed exercise Confused

I will seek out training to help me control their impulse control to add to the other measures I have put in place. Our front door now has an automatic closer on it (installed last night), the baby gate is in place between the kitchen (which leads to the garden) and the hall, the only other way out of our property is via the side gate which is now (and has been for a few months) chained and padlocked and we are going to get a porch built on which will give us a 2 door system to the front.

Our neighbour that we share the drive with has also said that they would be ok with us putting gates up at the end of the drive, so we are going to investigate that option as well.

OP posts:
BiteyShark · 06/08/2017 08:05

If your neighbour is definitely ok with gates then I would seriously look into it as knowing mine is behind two locked gates gives me piece of mind when I am not actively supervising him.

diamonte68 · 06/08/2017 08:11

Our neighbour has a dog as well, and when they got her as a puppy they asked us if we would be happy with gates. We were more than happy but as things turned out they decided against it. Their dog has also escaped through their front door a few times so they are happy to get gates and we will obviously pay for them. Our front garden fence will need to be heightened as it is only 2 or 3 ft and reasonably easy for the dogs to get over so I just need to look into planning and what restrictions there may be. Will get onto it first thing on Monday.

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