Tips and advice for getting a new puppy

[Flowerydems]

We're going to view the puppies tonight and they're ready next week so we'll be taking them home then.
Dh has had a dog before but I haven't from a puppy as we rehomed an adult lab when I was a teen.

Just trying to work out what I'll need. It's a collie cross golden retriever which we'll be cage training for sleeping but aside from being aware how much exercise I'll need to give it (know collies tend to need a lot) I don't know what else I should be doing.

Thanks in advance

Is this a rescue? What's the background?
Any health tests done?
Collies are crazy bright and active. But you can't walk a puppy much at all.
Research both breeds.
Join FB group dog training advice and support. Look at puppy advice. Cage training takes a while. It isn't just shutting pup in and leaving it.
Prepare for mouthing and toilet training. Set up visits for vaccinations and arrange a training course when pup old enough.
Stair gates are useful. Separate puppy from young children and toys etc. puppies chew. Everything.

Background is working collie dad and Kc registered golden retriever mum. They're going to be 8 weeks and having their second set of jabs at 10 so I'm aware won't be able to walk them until about 12 weeks.
There's puppy classes in the area which I'll put their name down for. Our plan is one of us to sleep downstairs with the cage then move it closer to its position each night so it'll be moved away from us bit by bit but dd is sleeping through the night so was going to use her monitor to keep an eye for a few weeks after that.

Health tests have all been done and it's been microchipped prior to us meeting them tonight. I've done research into both breeds and feel it's the right fit for us as even if it has dominant traits from either side it's still going to be a bright biddable dog that'll be good with kids

Interesting mix!
I slept next to enormous pup's crate to start with and gradually moved myself away from her. I now have a baby monitor!
And pictures. Or it didn't happen!
Got a shopping list? Kong and nylabone great for teething pups.

Aye I know, think it may be a case of someone's lady dog being a bit free and easy but the puppies are lovely. Both my sons are school age so are excited.

Ooh perfect I'll get them on the shopping list

This is one of the pups

Firstly, are you totally, absolutely, sure that the person selling you this pup is genuine? A cross breed where they have puppies available to take home next week rings alarm bells. Theres some guidance [[http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1TSdvcqmx9kKRTs0kkvZdLd/how-to-buy-a-puppy here]] on things to look for.

Have the parents been health checked, esp hip/elbow score for the goldie?

And are you prepared for what could be a very high energy, neurotic dog?

Aye we spoke to the lady on the phone last night, she's quite old and lives on a farm nearby and doesn't seem like she'd be running a scam.
She's letting us meet the parents when we go round tonight.
They didn't list the puppies til 7 weeks until they'd had their health checks and worming done so that's why they're ready next week.

We're definitely able for the dog and we know that it'll be an energetic wee thing.

Does the above sound ok though? I don't know I never thought it might be a scam but I checked the dogs trust guidelines of what questions to ask

Advice? Assume crash position and brace brace brace

Anything with collie in it is going to need a lot of mental stimulation, things to do at home, like learning tricks, training, toys that dispense food when played with, and once past the puppy stage you're looking at a LOT of exercise. Also a lot of training. A bright working dog needs a job to do and collies are herders. 3lostdogs.com/give-your-dog-brain/ This trainer has collie crosses and her articles are good, my previous dog was a worker and a lot of the suggestions here helped channel all the energy.

Wrote a long post and lost it!
I think I read something stupid like 80% of all puppies bought come from a puppy farm. The bitch will have litter after litter. The pups won't be socialised properly or have the proper health tests. By health tests I don't mean check pups aren't sick. Each breed has its own health issues. Eg our puppy had to be tested for liver shunt before we got her.
The parents you will be shown may not be the actual parents.
Cross breeds can be awesome. I grew up with one. But we knew he hadn't come from a puppy farm as he was a rescue puppy.

So, I found that advert on Gumtree, and googled the contact number given on there. That number has advertised Shi-tzu pups, collie pups, golden retriever pups...

Its a puppy farm. Don't go there. And certainly don't fork out £350 for a puppy advertised on Gumtree

Oh crap. Gumtree. AVOID!!!!!!!
Lucky escape.

Sorry I meant working farm which are common out here. I'm stressing now like. I have my list of questions though

Anywhere (whether a literal farm or not) that is advertising multiple litters of multiple breeds is a puppy farm. The mothers are kept in generally shitty conditions and animals are not given the care and attention you would hope for.
Don't get this puppy.

Oh god, ok. I'll still have to take the kids out cause I promised but I'll let dh know. Where would you recommend to find puppies that won't have been farmed?

No don't take the kids. They will fall for a cute puppy and you will be suckered in.
Rescue?
We have a pedigree pup. Waited for two years. You can't just get one NOW. Decent breeders will have a waiting list and won't breed very often at all. If you want a certain breed you need to put out feelers ASAP.

If you go with the kids you won't be able to walk away. Tell the kids the puppies aren't suitable and you'll be looking for ones that are.

There are lots of rescue dogs, including puppies out there (one is snuffling up my arm right now while she waits for her forever home), or go to a good breeder. No one good advertises on FB or Gumtree

What do you suggest she does? Wait until the puppy ends up in a rescue?

Not line the pockets of unscrupulous farmers is what I'd suggest.

If there was no market they would stop.

This guide to buying a puppy is well worth a read, as is the same site's list of questions to ask a breeder.

Health testing wise at an absolute minimum both parents should have been hip scored (with results under their respective breed averages; 12 for the BC, 13 for the GR), have current BVA eye tests (these are repeated annually) and gonioscopies (repeated every three years), the GR should have had their elbows scored (with a result of 0), both should have been DNA tested for (or be clear by parentage of) Neuronal Ceroid Lipofuscinosis and the BC should have been tested for the MDR1 gene defect.

Ideally the GR will also have been DNA tested for (or be clear by parentage of) Brittle Bone Disease, Degenerative Myelopathy, Ichthyosis, Muscular Dystrophy plus two types of PRA: GR-PRA1 and GR-PRA2, and the BC parent will have been DNA tested for Cobalamin Malabsorption, Collie Eye Anomaly, Raine Syndrome and Trapped Neutrophil Syndrome.

Whilst puppies of this cross can't be affected by some of the conditions listed above (because they're recessive and only present in one of the two breeds) a good breeder will still do all the tests because they should want to know whether they're potentially producing puppies which are carriers.

Don't just take the breeder's word on the health testing, ask to see all the official documentation. Any half decent breeder will be happy to show you this and talk you through all the results. If you have the dam's registered name then you can check for health test results here on the KC site however the KC don't currently list all available tests so seeing all the official documentation is preferable.

Does the sire actually work? There's a pretty big difference between a pet bred working sheepdog type and a genuine working sheepdog. And has the breeder done anything with dam? Showing/sports/working/training qualifications/etc.? Resource guarding can be a big issue in some lines of GRs, I'd want to be happy the bitch has somehow proven her good temperament.

The FB group Wolfiefan mentioned is brilliant, I highly recommend having a read through their Congratulations on Your New Puppy set of files.

Everytime someone gives money to these bastards, they are going to breed more. Don't give money to criminals thinking that you are saving a dog, you're condemning more to a miserable life.

Why not take the kids to a rescue centre instead, at most of them you can see the dogs there.

Puppy farms are the worst. So many examples of people forking out loads of money and the poor wee dog often dies young because they are often bred with serious health issues :( and what happens to the puppy's mum is barbaric. Please don't fund this by buying the puppy. If nobody bought from puppy farms there wouldn't be any any more.

I watched a documentary about it and the prospective buyer often got to view the pups in farms or people's homes with decent seeming people (including an older couple) but the puppies had actually come from a puppy farm.

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-breeder/where-not-to-buy-a-dog/

metro.co.uk/2017/01/01/the-ugly-truth-about-puppy-farms-6341590/

Ok, right so I've spoken to dh and I called sspca, dogs trust and the local vets ( just away to try the other vets for confirmation) just to see if they've heard of anything untoward from there.

Checked google aswell and it's collies and retrievers that have been advertised as well as the shitzu so I'll be asking that when I'm there. I've booked in for a health check at the vets in case I go and am happy with conditions etc.

Thanks you so much for your advice and wise words and I promise I'm not ignoring them but I want to see it for myself minus the kids. The vets have given me a list of paperwork to ask for for mother and father and things to look out for.

You're still going?

Ah, I see CMOT has uncovered that this place is clearly a puppy farm, even if it's not a huge industrial scale one. Looking at the dates of previous adverts I'd be concerned they're either alternating between pedigree and cross litters from the same GR bitch to get around KC registration restrictions (no more than one litter in a twelve month period from a single bitch) or that they've had the maximum number of registrable litters from her (four) so they've swapped to producing crosses instead. Both are pretty common practises amongst dodgy breeders.

Definitely cancel the visit. You know they're not decent breeders so there's no reason to still go along. Fib to the kids if necessary, tell them all the puppies are sold, but definitely don't take them. It's so much harder to walk away when your kids have fallen in love with a puppy which is exactly the sort of emotional response shitty breeders count on in order to sell their puppies.

If you don't see the issue in financially rewarding someone like this then I'd recommend having a watch of . I'll warn you, it's harrowing but it should be mandatory watching for anyone considering buying a puppy.

If you're happy to take a punt on a puppy from somewhere less than idea then go via a rescue rather than lining the pockets of someone breeding purely to make money with no consideration given to health, temperament or conformation.

If you want to get a puppy from a good breeder then research breeds, decide on the one that best suits your family and then go through the relevant breed club.

The health testing of the parents requires them to be sedated and x rayed and all sorts.

The vet won't be able to check for hereditary problems just by looking at the pup!