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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

13yr old Lab has very wobbly back legs...

56 replies

ChickenAndSpinachBalti · 22/05/2017 20:31

Back legs have been wobbly for a while. Occasionally going from under her when out for a walk and changing direction. Mentioned it to the vet at her yearly check up in Feb - who said it is just an age thing.

Collapsed on them today for a few moments. She couldn't right herself and only could get back up with help. Seemed a bit stressed out with it all so had a bit of a rest. Has been pootling around again, trotting up and down the garden, weeing OK etc. Seems OK in herself now.

Have booked an appointment with the vet tomorrow. Anyone got any idea if this is a waste of their time? Will they be able to do anything? Should I just cancel it and - well, you know, kind of wait it out until things are...you know.

My beautiful girl - the best dog ever. Anyone have any insight into whether this is kind of it - beginning of the end? Do I need to start preparing the DC (and myself) for news?

OP posts:

olliegarchy99 · 26/05/2017 17:46

boo
I too have received a response from veterinari when I posted that I thought my 13 yo lurcher was suffering from old age as his back legs have started giving way and he is losing some control of his bowels
I know vets will propose all kinds of investigative routes that can be followed but having spent over £300 on an xray and biopsy on a suspicious lump on his front leg (nothing to do with his failing back legs) which cleared up more or less after antibiotics I am reluctant to traumatise him still further re what I see as the equivalent of an old person having trouble walking as joints etc. He has painkillers and I have tried some joint tablets (for dogs) which ensure that he is getting the best treatment without upsetting him. Walks are shortened, I clean up after him and give him a nice soft bed to sleep on. He is eating well and enjoys his short walks (although the heat is getting to him) so I would not put him through any more vet's procedures at this stage in his life.
OP - it sounds as if you are doing your best for your old dog. It is not easy providing 'end of life care' but we all have to do it. I would love my 'lurch' to still be zooming around the field

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 19:34

ollie I think you were perfectly justified in your choice and I haven't for a moment criticized the OP's choices either, merely discussed alternatives which I assumed was part of the point of the point. Vetrperinari's post, on the other hand, was fairly offensive, suggesting that I would compromise my animal's welfare in pursuit of a diagnosis. Maybe s/he did not intend for her/his post to come across this way but we won't know until s/he posts again.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 19:48

Ollie You posted that your old dog was defecating in the house but that you and your vet considered it a 'normal old age change' I simply told you that it wasn't, and that it was more likely he was experiencing senile cognitive dysfunction (though neuropathic pain is also a possibility). Old age does not cause incontinence because old age is not a disease. But with increased age come increasing pathologies, many of which are treatable without any expensive tests.

Apologies if it upsets you but I see plenty of older pets experiencing pain due to inadequate arthritis management and confusion due to cognitive degeneration. Simply put, love is not enough - our pets also deserve appropriate medical support, and no that does not mean lots of expensive tests.

I understand that's not what you want to hear, and I have no doubt that your pet is well loved, but it's simply untrue that the pathologies you describe are 'normal' or due to 'old age' and so yes, I will challenge those inaccurate information, because I believe our pets deserve better geriatric care. If you choose to feel judged by that rather than taking the information on board, then that is your choice.

Booboos it's not a judgement it's a simple fact. I've seen owners remortgage their houses to chase a diagnosis - often at the expense of the animal's welfare, and sadly often their own. Again, it's our choice if you wish to be personally offended.

Right now back to the actual point of the thread... That's great news OP did you get an idea of whether DDog's response to the foot turning was normal or not? It sounds as if your Vet is being very sensible - a short drug trial and assessment makes sense, and you can continue to evaluate her and modify meds depending on her response - I'm glad she's doing better And don't worry about not noticing her lack of 'bound' sooner. Chronic pain creeps up slowly - it's often only when treatment starts that you realise what a difference it's making - it's why it's important to be vigilant for chronic degenerative conditions as they are easy to overlook.

tabulahrasa · 26/05/2017 19:58

"suggesting that I would compromise my animal's welfare in pursuit of a diagnosis. Maybe s/he did not intend for her/his post to come across this way but we won't know until s/he posts again."

Um, that's not how I read it at all, it seemed like just general conversation following on from what you'd said rather than anything to do with your dog tbh.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:03

Thanks tabula that's exactly how it was.

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:04

veterinary you may be a vet but I am a philosopher and I can tell you that while "x remortgaged her house to fund a diagnosis" is a fact, "x remortgaged her house to fund a diagnosis and was wrong to do so" is very much a judgement. You are clearly stating the latter and implicitly relating it to me. I have not suffered financially from seeking veterinary treatments for my, numerous, pets - I am lucky enough to be able to afford it and this is how I choose to spend my money. I do not judge others for making a different financial decision, but you can spare me your concern over my finances. As for my animals's welfare that is always paramount in my mind and I don't see you responding at all to the three examples I gave you where local vets made spectacularly wrong diagnoses. This is not because local vets are ignorant or incompetent, it is because they are generalists and no one can be expected to know everything so sometimes it is worth seeking a more informed second opinion.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:04

Is it my turn to feel judged yet?
Or shall we let the OP have her thread back rather that spend time being affronted?

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:08

I simply said that I would rather know and veterinary picked on that to talk about owners that compromise welfare in search of a diagnosis. Rather difficult not to take this as NOT relating to me as she quoted my words. Had I misunderstood her/his intentions, s/he could have just pointed this out rather repeating the welfare point and adding an imaginary financial one as well.

If the OP is happy with the answer she has, that is fine by me. If her dog is responding to treatment, that is wonderful. Personally I would want to know what was happening but that is my choice.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:08

"x remortgaged her house to fund a diagnosis and was wrong to do so"

You are absolutely right Boboos
That does sound like a judgemental statement. The flaw in your argument is that I didn't say it.

In terms of the three examples you gave, none of them are remotely detailed enough to support a viewpoint one way or another. So I didn't comment on them as I don't think getting into a tit-for-tat on someone else's thread was appropriate.

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:09

I am sure the OP is perfectly capable of speaking for her/his self.

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:11

at the expense of their animal's welfare is a judgement that the animal suffered because of the owner's choices. Suffering being bad it is a negative judgement.

and sadly is an expression of a negative judgement at another's choice.

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:12

I'll happily PM you more details of all three cases if you are interested.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:12

I have not suffered financially from seeking veterinary treatments for my, numerous, pets - I am lucky enough to be able to afford it and this is how I choose to spend my money. I do not judge others for making a different financial decision, but you can spare me your concern over my finances

Umm... unless you're an owner I have known that has remortgaged their house in pursuit of a diagnosis, then I have expressed zero concern for your finances. You do seem to be reading a lot of very personal stuff into very general comments

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:14

OK can you explain why you quoted my choice at the start of your comments rather than making a general point? It was your post and your choice of words.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:14

*at the expense of their animal's welfare is a judgement that the animal suffered because of the owner's choices. Suffering being bad it is a negative judgement.

and sadly is an expression of a negative judgement at another's choice.*

Again I agree. Again they were general observations based on my experience. Are you sensing a theme here?

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:16

OK can you explain why you quoted my choice at the start of your comments rather than making a general point? It was your post and your choice of words

If you look upthread tabula already has. I was using that sentiment to draw on my own experiences in the area.

Can we let the OP have her thread back now?

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:19

They are not observations they are judgements. Remember (or just re read your posts) you claimed you were stating facts not making judgements, I explained to you why you were making judgements.

Feel free to take your own advice about letting the OP have her thread back!

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:25

Interesting. My lived experience is not fact or observation? So, I don't really know people who remortgaged their houses to pay for Vet treatment? Is it like Shrodingers cat - If Boo didn't experience it, it can't be true? Wow you're right, you really are a philosopher

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:34

Try again because you are quite confused.

"X remortgaged their house to pay for vet fees" is a fact if indeed x did so.

There is an epistemological question over the veracity of this piece of knowledge, I.e. how do we know that is the case? Veterinari told us and s/he got the information from x. We'd need to know if you are a reliable witness.

Any assessment of the appropriateness of x's remortgaging their house to afford the vet fees, whether positive or negative, is a judgement.

My point is not epistemological, I am not disputing the veracity of your testimony, I am challenging your claim that you are merely reporting facts when you are blatantly making judgements.

You are really struggling with your own advice aren't you? Maybe a further plea for me to be considerate to the OP will help you?

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:43

How about I just let you 'win'.
It seems very important to you

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 20:55

Ooooh well done! It took you quite a while but you got there!

That, interested readers, is a red herring fallacy, an argument given in response to another argument that is irrelevant and draws attention away from the discussion. Specifically it is an ad hominem, an attack on the arguer than the argument, the favourite move of the desperate. Possibly a sub-category of 'poisoning the well', an ad hominem presenting adverse information about the target with the intention of poisoning everything that person has said.

Veterinari · 26/05/2017 20:59

Actually. I'm going out, don't have time and and tbh can't be arsed anyway

Original poster

ChickenAndSpinachBalti · 26/05/2017 21:12

To be honest I felt the comment Personally I like knowing what is going on as a bit judgy about me being satisfied with my vet's suggested course of action/my reluctance to do further diagnostics. But I let it slide as I gave you the benefit of the doubt that I am sure that is not how you meant me to feel.

OP posts:

Booboostwo · 26/05/2017 21:19

I am very sorry OP I did not mean it to be judgey at all. I meant it was my choice and when faced with such a difficult decision there are many different and entirely valid, personal choices. I am sorry if it made you feel bad, that was never my intention. We all try our best for our pets and being faced with a pet who is unwell is a horrible situation to be in. I wish you and your doggie all the best.

nooka · 26/05/2017 21:44

Our dog got very wobbly on his legs a few years ago. He was really quite young (3) at the time so we did go down the testing route (which was both distressing for him and hugely expensive for us). If he had been a grand age like the OP's dog I have no doubt we would have done very much as she has.

Our dog had a cyst in his spinal column (5 I think), and once it was removed recovered very quickly. Looking back over the year or so before his operation there were lots of tells that all wasn't right, but the main one was that he licked his front paws all the time. The neurological specialist said that was probably in response to the feeling going in his legs.

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