Would you put a muzzle on your potentially aggressive dog in a public park?

[KindDogsTail]

I take my young dog to a small city park where lots of other friendly, family dogs play together, often off the lead. From time to time one will run up to another dog to sniff. They are all known to each other at least by sight even of they do not play.

There is a woman who regularly walks two large dogs on a lead there. One is a Labrador, the other a rottweiller. She never lets them off, but I had heard the rottweiller had pulled away from her the other day to go after a dog and she had not been able to hold him back at first as he is so strong. Everything was all right in the end. I did not see what happened myself but heard about it.

Today I saw her and thought I had better ask about the rottweiller, to find out more about it, incase our dog or another were to run up to it. I asked her what he would do if this were to happen? She answered that he would "Go for it". I asked, "Would he growl and warn, or would he bite?" She answered, "Oh, he would bite/attack it." I said "In that case do you not think it might be safer if he had a muzzle?" She said "No, because it is up to other dogs to be controlled and stay away." She said she did keep a tight hold of him and warn people to call their dog away.

I asked if there was a certain time of day she comes, and she said no she comes at all times of the day starting at 7.30.

I understand that in the law, she may be right - it is up to people to keep their dog under control and a dog on a lead which attacks another off the lead is not held responsible. But in practice, in a small friendly park where people bring their children and young dogs and puppies, and let them of the lead, in inevitably they run up to other dogs unless they are on the lead all the time.

I cannot understand her attitude, even if she is legally right. If I knew my dog was aggressive and were taking it to a small park, I would put a muzzle on it in case of an accident. A child could do something unexpected, let alone another curious dog. What would you think?

Oh and for the record I don't blame dogs for anything, I blame their owners.

If you have a dog with social problems and no recall it should be on lead. It doesn't make any difference whether the social problem is reactivity or over 'friendliness' you're still causing problems to other people by having your dog loose.

Shriek if I was to avoid all footpaths parks fields and streets where would I walk my dog?

My dog loves walking and is extremely happy especially in parks and fields where there is lots of smells for her to sniff away. She becomes distressed when other dogs run over to her if these dogs had been put on the lead by their owners this wouldn't happen! I would be fine with changing direction if it helped but like others pointed out it's often impossible to move quick enough to avoid a dog off the lead.

There are so many kind and considerate owners that we do come across who put their dogs on the lead as we pass so we can all enjoy the outdoor space it would be nice if everyone did.

I did not comment on a dog having its head ripped off as that's obviously totally unacceptable and sad for all involved no matter who was to blame.

If we choose to avoid the park and stick to the roads we have to deal with people whizzing past on bikes on the pavement which also terrifies her but that's a whole different topic

i don't know Solymar, but i wouldn't rely on others to control their ddogs in the hopes that mine would never injure or maim another, because i would be mortified if mine caused another such damage, if, despite being on a lead its not possible to control a ddog from attacking another, and would feel responsible for that damage and not be able to blame a friendly ddog.

But Shriek its not a "friendly" dog if it comes bounding up to a dog, who's already giving it "fuck off" signals - its a downright rude dog. So both dogs are incorrectly socialised and both dogs are 'to blame' (although the reality is the owner/handler of the out of control dog (aka the one not on a lead) is to blame)

If I had a dog who was aggressive and likely to harm another dog then yes I would muzzle it, mine is not she just gets distressed when other dogs bound over so the point I'm trying to make is that if owners know there dog is likely to not recall then please put it on a lead while you pass other dogs so everyone can enjoy the same outdoor spaces without distress.

I found my dog as a stray in Spain and brought her home, unfortunately no amount of training seems to help her socialising she is still incredibly nervous nearly seven years later

Solymar its really hard when they haven't had the right start. Its a shame because if people either recalled or put their dog on a lead to pass you then she'd probably get better.

I know it's such a shame as if dogs are calm round here then she will reluctantly say hi but when they bound over she just panics! We were actually walking out the park the other day and a dog jumped of a moving car window and dived at her so incidents like this definitely don't help! Oh well at least she is far happier now than when she was a stray.

The reason I'm being a bit hmmph about it Shriek...

Is that I can control my dog on a lead, I absolutely can stop him attacking other dogs, what I can't do is stop him trying to bite them if they're in touching distance of his mouth.

I do muzzle him because I don't want him injuring another dog and I don't want a person getting injured in the resulting fight.

But really if everyone was responsible for their own dog, there's no need for a dog to ever be within touching distance of his mouth.

He's never off lead where there might be another dog, I move out of the way as soon as I see one coming so there's plenty of passing room or I avoid the way they're walking completely, his body language and in fact noises as well make it really very obvious he isn't welcoming and I shout over to owners as well to make sure they definitely definitely know he doesn't want to meet their dog.

I still get a dog approaching him most days.

The muzzle makes my life harder, really everything else should be enough to keep dogs away and just to rub salt in the wound he's only the way he is because of that type of owner who lets their dog approach anyway.

So yes I do muzzle him, but honestly, sometimes I really resent having to do it, it's not fair that I can't play fetch with my dog or work in any meaningful way on his issues because other dog owners don't control their dogs, issues that are in fact caused by other dog owners not controlling their dogs... While they get to wander off muttering about badly trained dogs and not even a second thought to the hassle they've just caused me or my dog - because theirs is 'friendly' so everything is ok.

When actually it's not friendly at all, it's just as badly socialised as mine, just behaving at the opposite end of the spectrum only they're not taking responsibility for it and I don't get a choice over whether I do or not.

I saw the dog in question today and what I especially feel concerned by is that it is on an extended extendable lead. So it is about five or six feet away from its owner. As it is a strong and big dog, I do not think the retraction mechanism would be able to pull it back in time should it be necessary.

When I want my dog very in control i have the lead so close, the dog's nose is by my thigh. I know I could step in front of its mouth too that way too, say if a child ran up.

I take your point Tabulah, but the opposite end of the spectrum-as in friendly- is not usually potentially deadly so I am grateful to you for taking such care with your dog incase anything went wrong.

I do not see other dogs running up to the dog in question the way you say they run up to yours, but a dog could make a mistake one day.

Oh it's not every dog, like I said ages ago, sensible dogs avoid him and sensible owners keep their dogs away...but it's often enough that you do end up going

And yes, I have to be more careful because there are worse consequences if my dog wasn't under control...but I think my point is that dogs like mine are the consequences of the over friendly rude dogs so it is potentially deadly, just not in an immediate way.

I have a very fear-aggressive Romanian stray who's had the most horrible start in life. He is dog and man-reactive. He wears a Yellow Dog Nervous harness, bandana with I NEED SPACE and a neon yellow lead. I avoid busy spaces and times and he is only ever off lead when we have the beach to ourselves. And yet every single day I still have off-lead dogs bounding up to him, with the far away owner shouting "it's ok, he's friendly". MY DOG IS NOT.
A muzzle increased his fear 10-fold. I don't know how much clearer I can make it that he shouldn't be approached and yet bloody inconsiderate owners don't take any notice.
The other day I had a big bloke trying to catch his nutter of a dog who would just not leave mine alone...3 times I told the guy not to approach my dog, the third time I had to actually yell at him because the guy was completely ignoring me and thought it would be a great idea to approach mine (who was standing calmly at my side while I was kneeling with him) FROM BEHIND. His response was to tell me that the park didn't belong exclusively to me. I'm afraid at that point I kinda lost my cool with him.
It's very frustrating. A little common sense and courtesy on both sides would go far.

Exactly tablurhasa people tut and think your dog is the one with socialisation issues and yet if there dog had any social awareness / graces it could tell from a very long way off by your / my dogs body language that this is a dog who is not interested in interacting.

As you have said that is just as much an example of a dog that has poor socialisation.

I've had worse than just tuts, a tut is a good day TBH.

I've had actual screaming abuse, on one occasion when their dog had crossed a road to get to mine but yep I'm irresponsible and should train him, or shouldn't walk a dog like that, oh and once I should not be a woman because apparently that's why he has issues, lol

nevertheless, every time you take out your ddog is a possible danger to others, as even on the lead you cannot control it and terrible harm could result. What if you fell over? what if two or more playing ddogs ran by... its supposed to be playtime, and there are children everywhere.

..but you really on absolutely everyone else to have complete and utter control off lead? These are family pets and the world is far from perfect and not everyone has that level of control, which you know, and yet daily you risk this?

What do you suggest then shriek?
Never walk the dog on the off chance someone else can't control theirs?
Euthanise every dog that dosent like other dogs? After all even in streets or deserted areas dogs can escape out of houses and approach mine?

My dog is under control its yours that isn't. I have hold of her by her face, she couldnt be more under control if I tried. Any dog can bite and you risk this every time you let your dog interact with others. At least I am aware of my dogs flaws and can give warning well in advance, plus she gives plenty of signals to other dogs that she is not interested. If your dog ignores this and gets within touching distance of her teeth it must have very little social skills. My dog is this way due to being harassed by other dogs constantly when she clearly isn't interested, it happened as she had serious surgery and dogs kept jumping on her when she was clearly still painful and so she associates dogs with pain and fear. I can't blame her for that and it does not make her dangerous, she does not attack dogs but won't tolerate them in her face. You have no idea of the background of the dogs before you let yours bother others and your dog could be setting their training back or causing the other dog stress. Why is your dogs need to meet others more important than mine who is minding her own business walking beside me?

Even with a muzzle dogs can inflict damage. Ive seen dogs crushed by other dogs with no teeth involved so a muzzle isn't the be all and end all.

If you can't recall your dog then it shouldn't be off a lead and you are wrong in the eyes of the law if your dog gets bitten so that's a risk you take when letting a dog with no recall off lead.

"every time you take out your ddog is a possible danger to others, as even on the lead you cannot control it and terrible harm could result."

I can control him... He doesn't get to move an inch unless it's in the direction I want him to move in.

I'm not sure why you think otherwise?

"What if you fell over? what if two or more playing ddogs ran by..."

It's not what if...he developed behavioural issues at 1, his medical issues at 16 weeks, he's now 4 - those aren't hypotheticals, I've been doing this with him for 3 years... I have him, if I fall over, I still have him, if two dogs run past I still have him...though I'm not sure why you assume two is worse than one.

"its supposed to be playtime, and there are children everywhere."

What do children have to do with it? And I'm not in a playpark

."but you really on absolutely everyone else to have complete and utter control off lead?"

No, I rely on my control over him...and not once in 3 years has he ever been a dog, despite the fact that he'd very much like to and in fact he's been attacked by other dogs in that time despite being on lead and muzzled.

But I do expect people to have control over their dogs partly because it's a pretty basic requirement of dog ownership and partly because it's actually a legal requirement.

But I also realise that not everyone is a responsible owner and not everyone takes their dog ownership seriously enough to comply with the law, so he is muzzled, but I reserve the right to moan about those owners online, because it's owners like that that have made my life difficult, my dog's life difficult and cost me hundreds in vets bills.

if you can guarantee your dog won't cause harm to others then no issue?

we weren't talking about you tab et al, but the OP who was so worried about a ddog that nearly got away from its owner and had previously caused harm, why has this become about your particular circumstances? I don't know your circumstances.

in your circumstances it does sound like your dog was out in too much pain which made a perfectly normal situation beyond their ability to cope with and sadly ressulted in this, thats absoloutely tragic.

there are absolutely tons of dogs on leads now, aggressive if appraoched, and i didn't say that my dogs are out of control or approaching others and ignoring warning signs so there's no need to attack me for something that simply isn't true Grey

sounds like the wrong ddogs being muzzled there!

Sorry shriek I didn't mean it to be personal.

I am just fed up of comments like the sort of thing you posted and it really annoys me.
So you don't want me to walk my dog near yours, that's fine but what about my dog? Does she not have the right to a walk in peace like every other dog just because she wants to be left alone?

For example yesterday a woman passed me in a tiny space I couldn't get out of (dogs behind and infront) and didn't put either of her dogs off lead. They were playing inches from her, barking and running around and circling us. All things that an on lead dog find stressful if they are like mine. She couldn't or wouldnt recall them and so my dog reacted badly despite having weeks without a moments trouble. She then had the cheek to give me a dirty look as if I was the one with the problem, when in reality the situation would have been avoided if she just had control of them in the first place.
My poor dog was upset the rest of the walk and to be honest I was annoyed that people can be so selfish!

Things like this happen all the time and trust me it's worse and more embarrasing for me than any of the friendly dog brigade. My trainer, one of the best in the north, dosent let her own dogs play with others as she prefers them to be in tune to her rather than running up to randoms. I wish everyone was the same!

i don't doubt that this must be extremely stressful for you and not least the poor ddog having to try to cope with others when so distressed by others.

anyone with barking and circling ddogs can potentially cause nuisance to anyone! they bug all of us and people are selfish, unaware, thoughtless sometimes, and some all the time! and yes they 'should' be under better control, but i know those kinds of ddogs are everywhere and if one of mine were a biter i would muzzle simply because i wouldn't want them to hurt another ddog and be responsible for that. my ddogs will tell others off and get them outta the way of them, but thats a very different thing to attacking when others are bouncing around, or following through and not letting up.

and the posts here are biased towards the context that op posted too.

So long as your dog doesn't run up to hers, you have nothing to worry about, right? And that's your responsibility. Letting off-lead dogs run up to on-lead dogs is not acceptable. There is no excuse. As somebody else already mentioned, if your dog's recall is not reliable enough to prevent that, then you should keep him/her on a lead.

Greyhorses - puppies and young dogs will only learn reliable recall if they have the opportunity to practise it. Whilst they are learning they won't be 100% reliable. I am a bit aghast at your attitude

Yeah but in a park full of kids and other dogs is not the place to practice recall. Not without a long-line as backup until they're 99% reliable anyway.