I want to start RAW feeding the dog

[PuraVida]

And of course I've googled but I'm bewildered

Could anyone just tell me what to buy and how much / what to feed her?

She's a miniature dachshund so weeny and prone to obesity!

Do you refuse to have contact with the person who's just prepared your dinner involving a raw chicken?

No. Because that person will have washed their hands and will presumably not have traces of raw chicken on their facial hair.

Unless you're snogging your dog it's not an issue. The very idea that a raw fed dog is positively teeming with salmonella is ridiculous. The person who used the bog before you is more of a risk.

OP my vet advised against a raw diet, saying that dogs are adapted to eating a different diet now. Cats are different, because on the whole they still hunt. Our old GSD had digestive problems and was on a diet of gluten-free high protein kibble (for working dogs), cooked meat and various supplements.

There are traces of raw chicken on your clothes, the knife, the chopping board, the pan, etc.

How are dogs different now? If your dog gets lost tomorrow will he source tinned food or catch and eat his own food?

Well Gin if you dumped me on a desert island I guess I'd try and catch my own food too, and if I couldn't cook it I might eat it raw rather than starve. It doesn't mean I'm well adapted to do so, does it? I'm not a vet, I'm passing on a comment from my vet.

Gin

One of the articles whatslove linked to does discuss wolves. It states that for captive wolves the best diet is acknowledged as kibble not raw feeding - they live longer and healthier on the kibble. I've not looked into source reliability yet but to be honest it wouldn't suprise me, if it has well founded data.

Wild animals have a shorter life span and survival rates are much lower. Only the fittest survive (not necessarily even thrive).

Of course dogs are, by nature, scavengers so he'd raid bins first. But then, what? He'd catch rats, rabbits and other prey and he'd eat them.
If I was marooned alone on a remote desert island with very little vegetation I could probably find a way of surviving but I doubt I would be nutritionally thriving. Just because creatures can survive one way doesn't mean its the best or that they can thrive that way. Do you see the major issue in your argument?

And BTW I'm not anti raw feeding. I've only just started looking into it but the flaws with your argument were too huge to ignore.

Cross posted with outsider

Yeah I guess I should add a disclaimer to that recommendation that I personally have never raw fed a dog, and while felines are obligate carnivores I'm not entirely sure what domesticated dogs are. Still know many dogs who've thrived on raw though.

gin where is any research or evidence to back up your opinions? As well as the research I put a well informed article in for interest, why do you not consider a veterinary surgeon to be a good source of information on dogs health? Do you not take your pet to a vet and pay for their years of education, training and expertise?
No one is recommending Bakers or Pedigree, they are without doubt terrible foods. Howeber a well made, from natural ingredients, with high levels of protein, well balanced commercial food such as Millie's wolf heart, Orijen, Eden and others,if the dog thrives on a high protein diet (some do not and do better on alternatives, Wafcol is great for sensitive dogs), these are all statistically safer than home fed raw for all the reasons the systematic reviews state, and the reasons mentioned in my previous post.

I just think people should be informed the other side as these hardcore, home made raw feeding die hards are a nightmare right now, all opinion, while ignoing all fact and research and just try and shout down anyone with a different opinion. It is a fad and a dangerous one at that.

"No one is recommending Bakers or Pedigree, they are without doubt terrible foods"

many, many dogs are healthy and happy on them, though.

Whatslove this is pretty much what our vet told us. The raw trend has come from people wanting to extend lifestyle diets to their dogs, who are not well adapted for those diets. Our dogs are not wolves or wild dogs. Domestic dogs have been very intensively bred by humans and their diet has adapted in this time.

And I am the least risk averse person I know, but I would not want my dog licking my child's face just after eating raw chicken. And for thos saying well, she should be trained not to lick faces........I absolutely agree.

The main problem with raw feeding is parasite transmission.

Either the meat has been frozen for a while or, for safety, it's better cooked.

Why do people think raw meat is better for a dog than cooked meat then? I'm intrigued. Or is it mainly a convenience thing for some? My vet recommended we cook meat for our dog with various herbs, it was really good for his coat and skin and it used to smell delicious!

I wonder why vets think feeding grain based kibble is best? There are almost no articles on raw feeding because the feed companies won't sponsor it: they would lose their profits. I daresay there are a great many other reasons, but I figure this is a primary one.

Google E320 and E321 which are present in multiple kibbles available in supermarkets. Shown to cause tumours in rats. Couldn't fancy it myself, sorry no time to find that study, but it's out there.

There are almost no articles on raw feeding because the feed companies won't sponsor it: they would lose their profit

Yet there are a number of raw feed food companies. Hmmm. That argument doesn't really work.

Nutriment is excellent. My dog loved it and the only reason I gave it up was one a bit of a bother with camping, and I also really needed the freezer space. If I had a chest freezer, and space for one, I'd put her back on it in a heartbeat.
When I first looked into it all, I was a bit overwhelmed by all the percentages as to what to feed and what quantities. I don't do percentages at the best of times

evolution has not caught up with processed foods, for us for dogs.

thankfully we don't eat the highly processed dried version of our daily intake and dried food does not contain any live enzymes essential for good digestion and health? does it? Real food (not cooked meat because it essentially ruins the health benefits and makes bones dangerously splintering and sharp) is covered in germs and its really not a 'fad' because before 'science diets' were around, dogs did eat our left-overs/raid bins, plus commonly eat fresh raw meaty bones from butchers for free which all helped with the natural recycling of waste.

dogs natural enzymes break down all the germs and the wider the natural food sources they eat the greater the gut microbes and the healthier, they have fresh breath, bright eys and gleaming teeth and coats.

... but, important to get the balance and variety right, but we somehow manage to not kill our kids feeding them a natural diet? We don't need science diets to feed them ok? I think we are capable

... we don't have to have 'all' our dietary requirements in one meal but spread across a day/week, same with dogs..

with cats you have to be far more careful as they will not survive purely on raw meaty bones/veg, they must have taurine.

vets also have extremely limited dietary training, provided by the 'science diet' producers!!

vets are gp's and not specialists in all these areas. I have heard some crazy and frankly wrong information from vets, and people need to do their own research, there are also many vets now advocating raw and feed their own dogs on it.

Our puppy was weaned on to BARF by the breeder. I continued with that (natural instinct) for a while, and now he has either kibble mixed with a high quality dog food or food I make (poached fish, chicken or turkey mixed with brown rice and vegetables). Every now and then he has some soft cheese or an egg (inc. crushed shell). The raw food was v popular with him but I got fed up of storing huge blocks of it in the freezer and having defrosting lumps of it in the kitchen. Despite being v meticulous with cleaning and washing hands I did get a bad stomach a couple of times.
He's just had a vet check and the vet said he was correct weight and in great condition.

I agree with GinSoakedWhore wholeheartedly . I have a German shepherd that's fed 100% raw: chicken feet, minced meat, meaty bones, lambs trachea , ox heart, tripe, and she's super healthy. She's a rescue and when I had her she was underweight, dull eyed, shedding hair constantly, diarrhoea , smelly having being fed a dry diet. The difference in her is amazing. How is feeding an animal processed shit from a factory in any way comparable to feeding it food as close to its natural state as possible?

As a result of reading this thread I bought a starter pack from Nutriment. It arrived today. I have a giant breed dog who is a very poor eater. Always border line too thin and turns his nose up at all dog food. I gave him a tray of the Nutriment turkey just now and he ate every bit. Does anyone have any experience of how much I should be feeding him? And should I still try other foods?