Would you be offended by someone not trusting your dog?

[LaserShark]

NC as very identifiable situation that I'm seeking advice on from various sources. Firstly, I am very afraid of dogs. I can't help it, it comes from childhood experiences. I don't mind being around dogs on leads but I am terrified of them loose. I rarely have to encounter this so up til now, it hasn't been an issue.

However, my neighbours recently acquired a dog. A couple of months ago he was a tiny puppy and I didn't mind him. However, it's a pitbull and has very quickly become big and intimidating to look at (to me, someone already scared of dogs).

They don't seem to take it on walks; they let it out into the garden throughout the day. There is no division between our gardens, just a path running down the middle.

When I realised the dog was pooing on our lawn - several big piles on one morning - I was fuming but politely went over and mentioned it. They were apologetic, cleared it up and mowed our lawn. I don't think they saw why I didn't want it in the garden at all, even if they cleared up the poo but they offered to put a fence up and to keep the dog on their walled patio until the fence is up. I was happy with this. Everything was civil and friendly. I didn't see any more poo on the lawn, though a ball belonging to my son that was left out has been bitten and deflated so it's possible the dog has been back in the garden or maybe it was something else.

This morning, I took my 2 year old out to play and the dog came out onto the patio. No sign of the owners. It jumped up with its front paws on the patio wall and was watching us intently - probably friendly, but I am worried it thinks of the whole garden as its territory as it has had free reign to run over our lawn up until I asked them to stop it. Anyway, I don't have a rational reaction to dogs, my heart was pounding and I was shaking with fear. I'm pretty certain it can jump over the wall. I took my son back in the house quickly and called out to the owner. A few minutes later, she pounded on the door demanding to know what had happened. I said nothing had happened but I was worried the dog would jump the wall so had come back inside and asked if she'd shut the dog in for a few minutes so I could go back out to get my toddler's toy (ironically, a toy dog which he loves). She argued that the dog wouldn't jump the wall - she said he could but he won't. I said I was sorry but I just don't trust it. She snapped at me to call the authorities then and stormed back into her house slamming the door.

Up until now everything has been friendly and whilst I explained that dogs make me nervous, I haven't expressed any anger - though, I'm actually raging that they would let their dog have the run of our garden and to use it as a toilet even if they were happy to pick up after it. I can only think that she took great offence when I said I don't trust the dog. But I have two young children, limited experience of dogs and I have no idea how they are training this one so why would I trust it?

I was really upset this morning, both from the panic I felt on seeing the dog and thinking it was going to jump and from the unpleasant shift in her attitude. Her husband is a verbally aggressive, shouty man - I have previously witnessed eight police officers restraining him outside our house one Sunday afternoon. These are not people I want to antagonise.

But, I can't use my own garden. I don't trust them to restrain the dog adequately. They have been promising the fence every weekend; supposedly it will go up next weekend but I'm worried that it will only run either side of a hedge which I doubt is high enough to keep the dog behind. I'll probably never be able to relax with a dog so close but if I felt the fence and hedge were high enough, I could take my kids out with the rational knowledge it was safe.

Right now, with no fence I can't go into the garden at all. My 5yo has chicken pox so we are confined to the house completely. I'm keen to sell later this year so don't especially want this to escalate into a dispute. I just want them to make sure that the dog cannot access our garden and I think that's fair.

So, as people experienced with dogs, would you be offended by my attitude towards the dog? Does anyone have any advice about how I can resolve this?

(Yes, I know I could get help with my fear of dogs but I'm not in a position to pay for any sort of therapy and it doesn't have an impact on my life usually - until now, when a pitbull is sharing my garden!)

"It has not calmed my nerves to read of the Staffy that has attacked children in a playground in Blyth this week."

That had nothing to do with breed, just reading newspaper reports its a whole series of events all caused by people supposed to be responsible for that dog that led to that incident.

That dog has been let down by everyone that was ever supposed to look after it, that's what caused those children to be hurt, not the fact that it was a staffy.

I guess I feel, tabulahrasa, that I don't know how this dog is being trained, I don't know how responsible its owners are and therefore I don't know if it could be triggered to behave in the same way. The breed becomes relevant because of the damage it could inflict if provoked rather than me assuming all dogs of the breed are aggressive.

MyFriends, thanks - the current wall it is behind is pretty low and I'm sure the dog can jump it. It doesn't look like the neighbours are doing anything about the fence so I will have to look at how we can afford one of our own. My mum is pushing me to report them and thinks they can be forced to put up a fence but I think going that route is likely to be protracted and unpleasant.

The dog in the park, it wasn't a sudden trigger...

The person who had owned it, says she owned it from 4 1/2 weeks old...that's way way too young, which means it hadn't been taught things like bite inhibition from its mother because it wasn't old enough, she had given it away hours before the incident as free to a good home and advertised on gumtree because she was struggling to cope with looking after it.

So you're looking at even with taking her at face value a dog with a really dodgy start and under exercised and untrained, then given away to god knows who.

Witnesses stated that when it arrived at the park it was muzzled and the muzzle was removed and it was let off lead into the children's play area.

Dogs who don't need a muzzle don't usually own them, so it's pretty obvious that the dog had known issues.

That's with just the bare bones of it...I'm not criticising you btw, I'm trying to show that it is a completely different situation and that it really doesn't have much to do with your situation.

I know it won't make a huge difference to a phobia, but, if it's even a bit helpful - that wasn't a dog that suddenly turned.

You sound very calm and level headed OP.

Do you plan to speak to your neighbours re the latest lot of dog shit?

Fwiw, from your description it sounds like they've never had a dog before and are just realising what hard work they are.

Thanks, it does help to keep reiterating calm and sensible advice. I can't stop my fear but I can repeat rational facts to myself to keep panic at bay.

My husband spoke to them about the latest poo incident. He is much more capable of handling it smoothly than me by now!

Also, the dog was a tiny little puppy when it first arrived but I don't know how many weeks old.

Yes, a high fence if your best option.

It probably is worth you or your husband taking the line of not wanting dog poo in the garden with a toddler and it's been an unusual arrangement with no fence, and the dog one side and a toddler the other have changed things a bit, so you want to put a fence up, what about going halves?

Good luck. Dog poo is a major health hazard especially with very young children who might touch it accidently. Just for letting their dog do that they're behaving atrociously.

I think it's quite unreasonable to get a dog without first ensuring that your garden is secure. It's certainly not ok to just leave your door open and let your dog wander in and out when you haven't ensured that your garden is secure first. You'd do this for the dog's safety if nothing else.

The neighbour should have come round and explained that they would like to put a fence up between the gardens as they were going to get a dog. Once they'd put the fence up, then they could get the dog. If they'd done that, there's be absolutely no problem at all here (well other than the neighbours on the other side complaining about barking, but that's another issue).

Well, yeah christina, I still haven't got my head around them thinking it was ever ok to let their dog poo in our garden even if they cleaned up afterwards. It just boggles my mind.

I doubt we'd get the money from them to go halves as they have kept on insisting they have the wood and are putting up the fence themselves. But it keeps on not appearing. My husband is reluctant to get one ourselves because he believes that they will put it up and says we can wait and see if their fence is adequate, but we could be waiting indefinitely and then it might be too low anyway. I'm so frustrated by the whole situation.

StepAway, the point about the dog's safety was mentioned up thread as well and it's a really good point. We are in a row of five houses and all the garden fences have to have a gate so that we all have access to the gardens from the back. So if the gates on the other fences were left open then the dog could run through all the gardens (two also have toddlers) and escape or run into the main road. They have been trusting us/our next door neighbours to keep the interconnecting gates shut. I agree they should have sorted this before getting the dog and perhaps as mentioned upthread maybe they just didn't think ahead.

It's sad for the dog that it's doesn't have the kind of owners who think about how they're going to keep it safe and secure in the garden. Very sad. Not least because it suggests that they won't be prioritising the dog's welfare in other ways (not walking the dog regularly is not at all good either).

I agree with PP about getting a fence, one that is high enough that you know it won't be able to jump over it.

Seeing the owners reactions, the fact she knew it can jump over the wall but somehow thinks it won't wouldn't feel me with confidence at all.

And TBH, with 2 small dcs, even if it was a breed known to be nice and friendly (let's say a Labrador), I wouldn't be happy to have a dog that I don't know close to two small dcs like this.

if you get a fence get a close board one with concrete posts and concrete gravel boards not a lap fence. Lap fences are very brittle and would not be able to sustain the force of a dog jumping against it.

Sounds like you'll have to get the fence sorted yourself.

If they weren't mortified and galvanised into action the first time their dog shit in your garden, they're unfortunately not that bothered.

It sounds like you have had sensible advice!

Just a comment on the dog 'turning' thing, dogs won't act aggressively from nowhere their body language often gives us clues way before. So it might help you to learn a bit of doggie body language to help talk you down in situations you feel panicked and are not sure if a dog is being aggressive and guarding or wanting to play.

Briefly here is what to look for:

A relaxed dog usually won't look rigid, if their mouth is open, tongue out they are relaxed and calm. Ears flopped on their head, sitting or lying down is another relaxed look.

Happy/excited playful dog will be moving all over the place, tail wagging in a circle, mouth open, can't see whites of the eyes, not staring.

Alert is they will have their ears up, mouth is shut and looking (not staring so you can see whites of eyes) at whatever they are interested in (sound/squirrel etc) this is not aggressive, but if a dog looks interested in you then look for other signs of the dogs frame of mind. Usually if they flip from excited/relaxed to alert they are just curious and nothing to worry about.

Signs of anxiety/fear is yawning, lip licking, starring (seeing whites of the eyes) tail between legs, crouching trying to make themself look small.

If a dog is frozen still, growling, starring, baring teeth (lip curled back) he is telling you to back off (might be guarding or whatever) that is the time to back away, don't run just calmly leave.

Here's a picture to illustrate it a bit. I hope that helps you rationalise things when you see the dog, you can check off 'aggressive' signs are if he isn't doing any you know he is not going to attack you.

Thanks! When he was watching us in the garden he was definitely alert/interested. No sign of aggression.

Then I'm sure he is just curious and very unlikely to do you any harm!