Be honest...Does anyone have a dog that never fully housetrained?

[BallyGoBackwards]

I have posted previously about my dog (now 11 months) who was peeing at night, only at night, he doesnt have "accidents" ever during the day. For over a month now I have gone back to basics and have been getting up in the middle of the night to bring him out to pee. This is more or less working but obviously is not ideal. Last night I brought him out and he went to the toilet at 10.45, when I came down at 3 oclock he had already gone in the kitchen. He is not crated and I dont want to crate him if it is a case that he cant control it. I would hate for him to be in crate and really needing to go pee. All accidents are fully cleaned and double cleaned using bio- detergent.

My question is .....has anyone got an adult dog that has never fully toilet trained?? I am losing the will to live at the moment. Is there a chance that there will never be light at the end of the tunnel?

chair how much protein do you feed on a raw diet? Percentage wise?

Well if it makes any of you with problems feel not so alone. My 6 year old terrier has never been reliable. Despite having the back door open whatever the weather I have seen her merrily pop IN for a poo without a care in the world!
Actually, I'm thinking of changing her to raw feeding. Might this help does anyone think?

tom it's hard to tell from just what you've said but it sounds more behavioural to me. When you say the door's always open, has it always been that way? When you first started toilet training how did you go about it? Do you praise for poos / wees outside? What do you do when she comes in for a poo? And what food is she on now?

All protein he eats chicken/lamb /beef etc and the bone ,to occasionally eats fish

No carbs as such (but I'm not completely anal so eats odd. Dog treats etc )

Chair the protein content of meats varies. Chicken is usually about 27g of protein per 100g of meat. Lamb about 25g. So even if you only give your dog chicken the protein intake is going to be in the region of 25%. Do you not give veg, too?

I'm not saying it's DEFINITELY a problem with the protein, just that there has been some question over it in the past, so IMO worth trying for the OP. Plus, different dogs react differently to things. Most of us here would agree that Bakers / Pedigree Chum are rubbish, but my neighbour's dog has been on Bakers her whole life and is thriving (and 19 years old!).

LetThereBeCupcakes It was meant to be more lighthearted than anything else but thank you for your response - yes the back door has always been open. For the other dogs as much as anything and yes I agree that it is probably behavioural. She always poos on the mat inside the back door and I guess that this stems from when she was a puppy. I never used puppy pads;just the classical puppy training methods of putting out every 10 seconds it seemed and praising massively etc etc. It doesn't happen often, but irritating when it does because she seems so pleased with herself! I don't do anything when she does poo there; if I caught her doing it and scolded her she would be really upset - she's quite a timid little thing. I have washable door mats and so it's not a major problem.
I was asking about raw feeding because it's a topic that interests me (and I understand that their poos are smaller which would be quite handy!) I don't really want to go into feeding whole carcasses etc, storage for one thing but I would be grateful for opinions on how "doable" it is?

What do you think she'd do if you put the mat outside?

I'm a vet and I've been amazed at the number of dogs who are not house-trained.
To the dog, aside from an early instinct to defaecate outside of the bed, many don't much mind where they go. It's us who define the appropriate and inappropriate zones. In training the dog, we need to make it important to them that they go in what we designate an appropriate zone AND don't go in an inappropriate zone.
We do this by making rewards swift and lavish, and by supervising ferociously so as to intercept and correct inappropriate elimination and to allow as many opportunities as possible for the dog to do what we want and reinforce this with rewards.
Obviously it is much more convenient to to to the loo indoors! Holding on, hinting to your inattentive owner that you need to go, going out into the rain and cold, getting your legs splashed depending on breed and leg length.... not such fun.
For the habitual indoor offender, it may take what seems like forever to reform them and every indoor pee or poop is unfortunately a step back.
Definitely the toy breeds are the worst. I wonder if it's because of the way their owners cherish spoil them to the point of sometimes barely letting their feet touch the ground, the fact that their pees and poops are low volume and hence deemed less offensive, or because of other aspects of the owners they often have. Or indeed, whether they are not too bright, or very clever indeed!

villain when I first started studying dog behaviour people started asking me for help, toilet training was by far the most often asked, and like you say nearly always toy breeds. I once had someone come to me with her 14 month old small fluffy thing and when I asked what she'd tried so far she just said she was waiting for the dog to figure it out.

LetThereBeCupkakes Sorry was in the bath! I've tried that and she poos in the empty matwell! As I say it's rarely but definitely a behavioural relic from the puppy days. Normally in the evening or whatever she's fine and asks to go out but it's just strange when she's OUTside and she chooses to come in to poo!
She is quite a complex dog, naturally submissive (not to the point of peeing herself) but being red and an Australian has a very short and violent temper with inappropriate behaviour from male dogs. And also the best ratter I've ever seen.

My Dog is a Maltese/Jack Russell mix.

cupcakes and villian....see this is my problem. As my dog doesnt toilet indoors during the day it is very hard to correct the problem. I cant intercept as I am never there when he does it. I really dont believe it is a training thing. I have never had this with a dog before.

Could it be that he doesnt drink enough earlier in the day? Mind you if you say yes, I dont know what I can do about it

Bally:

Right. OK. So at the moment so is not able to go 4 hours over night. She can do longer than this during the day so we know it's not an issue with bladder control in general.

You said she's not generally in anxious dog. Does she sleep on her own at night? Where are your other dogs? Presumably separate from her if you know she's the one having accidents. Could she dislike being separated?

You offer food twice a day. She may or may not eat breakfast. She eats dinner at about 6.30 but is picky and you need to add extras to encourage her to eat. How much does she eat? How long does she get to eat her breakfast? Do you give her her full daily food in the evening if she's not eaten her breakfast, or only half?

Does she not drink much earlier in the day? And then drink lots later on?

Tom that's really, really weird. So if she's in, she asks to go out. But sometimes when she's out she spontaneously decides to come in and poo? Are you sure she's not a cat?

My aunt is a red-head and Australian and also short tempered. Not sure how she is with rats, though.

Oh, and if it makes any of you feel better, I have to get up every 2-3 hours with my boy, round the clock. Believe me, I know how bloody knackered those of you letting your dogs our at night are!

LetThereBeCupcakes Oh my I now have a real 'visual' of your red head Aussie Auntie, ratting in the barn!!!!! Thanks for the laugh!!

Mine has always marked indoors. Not frequently but approx every month he has a little phase of marking in the most inconvenient places! The Hoover has been a victim more than once which is a bugger to clean.
I wish I knew what prompts him to do it.

good night Cupcakes Thanks for the chat and the laugh!

Nope no vedge as such dogs can't break it down unless blended

but he does eat raw carrot now and then and rather partial to a Brussels sprout judging by ones I have grown and he picked

cupcakes...... He is the only dog in our home and has been the only one since we got him in January (aged 7 weeks). I dont think he is anxious at all. He is happy when we leave him at bedtime. He doesnt make a sound. When I come down during the night and in the morning he is asleep in his bed and isnt exactly hopping up thrilled to see me

Re food. If he has eaten breakfast I give him a smaller amount in the evening and if he hasnt eaten breakfast I give him a larger amount but he might or might not eat it all. He isnt really motivated by food and only seems to eat until he is full (unlike me and any other dogs I've had) He wouldnt eat for the sake of it (again unlike me)

Re drink. He drinks very little full stop. Even after an hours walk this morning he still didnt drink. As far as I know his first drink was around 5 this evening and that was after his second walk and even at that it wouldnt be loads.

Please wave a magic wand where ever you are

tompuss -- mine has scratched to come in, gone to the pad and done wee/poo (before I realize, or otherwise I would intercept) and then trotted to door again to go back out and play.

I take 100 percent blame for it, I know that I didn't approach training properly when they were little. Was fostering them as rescues and really didn't expect them to stay but they were sickly for so long that by the time they were ready to go out for adoption I was hooked. They lived in a pen and used the pads and just started to believe that was good boy.

Btw apropos of another comment -- mine eat carrots all the time and seem to have no problem digesting them; it's their favorite treat.

Dog let out at 10.45 last night. My alarm clock went off at 3 oclock and I gave myself a second to get up and re-woke at 6.45!! Flew downstairs and Dog had'nt peed. He went 8 hours last night so it can be done. He didnt even rush to relieve himself when I let him out.

Cupcakes I am wondering should I cut out his breakfast meal (as he is never really pushed anyway) and just give him one main meal at around 5.30 oclock and see if that works/makes any difference??

Why not? Try it.

Glad the wand waving worked!

Yes give it a go, you never know. Remember any changes will probably take a while to have an effect so stick with it for a while.

Can you think of anything at all that you did different last night?

i would follow these steps:
get medically checked first

If medically checks out (diabetes, etc) then lift water at night (if you are feeding dry food do this in morning, allowing plenty of water all day, and then a wetter food before 6 for 2nd meal)

confine ddog's nighttime area to very close to the back door (put pen sections across your kitchen so that the area is bigger than a crate allowing space for bed and newspaper for peeing on, nice and thick everywhere so you don't have to mop up, is he's 'cocking' yet?)

give a very late wee/point opportunity, your bedtime.

I really wonder if his litter days he got used to being in wee and poo, but the fact that he is able to go out all day without accidents ..

he is far too old to be weeing in the night.

If the above works, make a space between paper and bed and keep decreasing newspaper. At least you won't have to mop it all off the floor.

You can then make the night pen size as big as you want until you remove it - hopefully!

I don't use crates and have dpups toilet trained before two months, barking to get out for poos by around 6/7 weeks, so this is the reason I recommend just using a method of sectioning off a bit of kitchen, that and that i would worry about shutting a ddog into a crate that needs to release that amount at night because of the stress it will cause the poor ddog, especially if it has to stay in the crate with wee all night