I don't like, or trust, my dog.

[mjmooseface]

Hello! First time posting in the doghouse!

I think I know what I need to do, but just looking for others' advice and a confirmation of my own worries.

So, at the beginning of 2012, after we'd discovered we were expecting our first child, DH thought he'd surprise me with a dog. (I'd been living at home with various dogs and animals before moving in with him. But they were family pets. None were my sole responsibility.)

Trouble is... he got his mum to buy the dog whilst we were away on holiday for a week. I wasn't there. I didn't get to meet the dog that would become my pet. All I know is that he was rescued from a home where he was badly mistreated. Lived outside. He came to us covered in mud with a chunk out of his ear and very, very nervous. But DH, who's had experience of training former dog's of his, managed to get the dog to trust us and go for walks on the lead with us. He would sit across my lap on my bump as it got bigger.

I wasn't told anything about him! Only his name. I don't know how old he is, I'm not even sure what breed he is. I don't know what injections etc he's had, if he's chipped. Nothing. But I went with it. (A lot of other personal stuff was going on in that time, otherwise I would have dealt with it properly. I've made it very clear to DH that whilst I appreciate the gesture, I'd like to be a part of the process of getting a new pet and that this was not the right or proper way to go about it!)

Anyway. He is mostly lovely. But hates cats and we live in a neighbourhood of cats so he is always, always barking.

However, I don't trust him with my son. So much so that I keep them separate pretty much all during the day, using stair gates. My son is nearly 3. We live in a small flat. The dog growls and barks whenever my son goes past the room he is in. My son can't get to him, because of the stair gate. On occasions when they have been in the same room together or in the garden and I've been there, I have witnessed my dog go for my son. Not actually making contact, but enough to make me want to get rid of him. Although, I do think he has made contact before, but it happened so quickly, I can't be 100% sure and I couldn't find any marks on my son's arm. He shows his teeth at him when he is growling, which is aggression.

He barks every time I pick up and play with my son. He barks when we're playing together and throwing balls around. He barks when my son is in the bath, splashing. It seems I, or my son, can't do anything, without my dog barking or growling.

He has bitten my hand before when I was disciplining him. Broke through my skin. And he attacked my aunt's cat quite severely when she looked after the dog briefly when we were sorting out our housing and couldn't have the dog in our temporary accommodation. Our fault for not telling her how seriously he hates cats.

So I know I want to get rid of the dog. But it feels hopeless. How do you rehome a dog you have no information or paperwork on? And who doesn't like children?

DH has ASD and is really attached to the dog. WAY more so than me. Whilst he has witnessed the dog barking and growling aggressively at my son, he's never seen him go for our son and I think he thinks I'm making it up/exaggerating because I've made my feelings quite clear on how I feel about the dog.

It does make me sad, because I loved the dog before my son came along. But my son and his safety comes first.

Sorry this is so long. Just not sure what to do. Or how to go about what I need to do. Any advice? I'd really appreciate it as DH has made it clear it's my decision and doesn't want any part of it or to know if/when he leaves.

If I was in your position I'd be looking at two possible scenarios: 1, rehome the dog or 2, be prepared to work with a dog behaviourist over a sustained period to get the dog to stop aggression to your son.

I have a rescue dog that bit my 7yr old son badly enough for him to be in hospital for 3 days. It happened because ds put his face next to the sleeping dog's face and bellowed "NIGHT NIGHT DDOG" at him. Dog woke with a start and bit ds.

Everyone told me to get rid of the dog, even though I knew that it wasn't really the dog's fault as he'd not shown any aggression before. Ds begged to keep him, so we worked with a fabulous dog behaviourist who tested ddog with food, treats, games etc before declaring that she could see no signs of aggression. We gave ddog treats when ds was around but also kept him muzzled when I wasn't in the room and crate trained him (and trained ds to stay out of the crate!) so ddog had a safe space to go to escape unwanted attention.

Now, this has worked for us but I think it would be a much harder road for you as your dog has shown fear/aggression towards your son on several occasions, which is more entrenched behaviour and harder (but not impossible) to get rid of. You could go down the muzzle route, which at least means your son couldn't be bitten, but only if backed up with sustained behavioural training.

In all honesty, and I am a dog lover and hate the knee-jerk "get rid of" attitude, I would rehome the dog as I don't think you can guarantee your son's safety around him. Sorry.

I don't think my post shows how hard we've worked with ddog to make sure he and ds are safe together. It's been a long, but successful, road.

Thanks HarrietSchulenberg. I appreciate your reply.

Could I ask how you go about rehoming dogs? I honestly have no idea. I know when my mum breeds dogs, she advertises in the paper etc. Would it work for rehoming?

And how to find a dog behaviourist and how much it would cost per session roughly?

I, too, think it is deeply entrenched behaviour that might be hard to put right. DH works a lot of hours and I'm due to start a course and placement in September. I'm not sure how working with a dog behaviourist would fit into our schedules from that point.

I am sad because I do love animals and grew up with allll sorts of pets. I just think we approached this in the wrong way and have let it go on too long. What a mess. And I'm not 100% angry with my dog. He had a really bad start to life and I don't think he's ever really gotten over it. If that's possible for dogs, I don't know!

You are right to prioritise your son's safety. To do otherwise in your situation would be reckless with his health and even his life.

Very tough but follow your instincts here, absolutely.

No, don't rehome him through the newspaper. Contact a charity like Dogs Trust for advice, and/or to see if they could take him.

Yes, Dogs Trust, or a reputable local rescue. Ask at your vet's as I'd be very surprised if they couldn't help.

Good dog behaviourists are pricey. I Ours charged £50 for an initial 2 hour visit (but stayed much longer as I plied her with tea and we got on well ).
Follow up training classes, with a small group and lots of input, were £30 for a block of 6.
I was very lucky because my behaviourist was also my friend's daughter so I kept in touch after we'd stopped going to classes, but I reckon you would pay an awful lot more for a behaviourist if you didn't have that initial contact, as I did.

Seriously, what was your husband thinking at the time?! What a difficult situation for you all, and I feel for the dog too as the arrival of the baby and your change of attitude towards him (no judgement there, as I don't blame you) must have been a huge shock. OP, I can't help but feel that your life would be much easier if your dog was rehomed. It must be very stressful for you to have to keep dog and child apart and although you've done a fantastic job all round so far, it may be time to admit defeat.

Wow Harriet, where do you live? £60 for 6 for training classes here (Edinburgh) and as for groomers, they charge a lot and have waiting lists. A definite niche for anyone considering a career change here!

Choosing a dog who has been horribly abused to live with a new family and a new baby was not a smart move.

This isn't your fault, or the dog's, or DS's. Try a behavioural therapist before you think about rehoming, and get your DH to pay for it.

Training classes are different and cheaper than behaviourists.

I paid £160 per appt for the behaviourist when I had my aggressive dog.

And the. oP needs a behaviourist not training classes.

She was advised by Harriet to use a behaviourist first.

How were you disciplining him when he broke the skin on your hand OP? Just trying to understand the circumstances.

If you do re-home, please contact a reputable rescue and discuss the exact circumstances surrounding your dog. They may or may not decide to take him on, if he can be rehabilitated and re-homed.

You mention your mum being a breeder. Does she have any hints or tips for you? Breeders usually have a wealth of knowledge about their chosen breed that might be appropriate?

Good luck, it must be terribly stressful.

Thanks for all of your replies.

needastrongone I was disciplining him by tapping him on the nose and saying 'no' with the no finger in his face. It's how DH trained him to be disciplined.

I may talk to my mum. Though she breeds Labrador's and cockerpoo's which are completely different breeds to our dog! She might even know someone who may take him in. I've had another aunt look after him briefly who really get on well with him.

It is stressful. Especially as DS has autism and I'm dealing with my own deteriorating mental health atm. The dog seems to be another thing adding unnecessary stress to my life. And I feel awful saying that because he is supposed to be a part of the family, not expendable.

I'm having a look at some training classes in my area. The problem with that is, the dog does not listen to me on a daily basis. If I call him inside from the garden, he ignores me completely. I'm not sure I'm the best person to do the training with him if he doesn't listen to me anyway.

Corygal I know. And the original home had children in it who were the ones who also abused the dog and were the ones who burned his ear. :( I hate how this was gone about. If it had been up to me, we would have done the whole getting a pet thing the right and proper way!

So I may see if we can get an assessment with a behaviourist for an opinion on the dog's general temperament and then see if we can rehome him. I think he would be so much happier and less stressed in a home without children, or much older children. He is a lovely dog, but can't be trusted with my son. I don't like having to contain him to one room during the day when he's not outside or my son is asleep/napping. He should have free roam of the house, ideally.

The instance I thought the dog had bitten my son, I remembered what happened. They were in the garden together and DS picked up the dog's ball and the dog grabbed the ball back, whilst growling. Understandable, as it is his ball. DS loves balls too and because of his autism and lack of understanding and communication, can't understand that that particular ball is the dog's!

Not a decision I'll be making lightly. But I do feel the dog would be better with another family. There is a shelter very nearby who rehome dogs who I may contact, or look into other charities as mentioned.

Again, thank you all. :) It's nice being able to discuss it properly. I can't do that with DH sadly as he also has autism. I fear he will grow to resent me for rehoming the dog. But I hope to be able to show that it will be better for everyone, the dog included.

Behaviourists are expensive...but it's not usually a regular thing.

You pay for an assessment and they devise a training plan for you to follow, you then keep in touch about progress by email and phone and see them again only when and if you need to.

What a stressful situation to be in, and I have to say what a bloody idiotic and thoughtless move by your DH!

You absolutely need to put your child's safety first and you also need to consider everyone's wellbeing. How happy is the dog in your current arrangement? Not only is he a very potential danger to your son but he's most likely unhappy and stressed and you must be run ragged. Who's winning in this?

Although you worry about who would take him on, there are plenty of childless people out there who would be happy to take on a rescue and who would give him a happy loving life. As others have said, use reputable organisations, do not use papers / Facebook as sadly there are evil people out there who obtain animals this way to use as bait for fighting dogs.

As for making DH understand, if it's difficult to talk perhaps you could try to film the behaviour and make him realise how serious it is? It's sad that he doesn't consider the aggression he has witnessed enough cause for concern. If my dog bared her teeth and growled at my son she would be gone. That may sound cold but I don't have the time or money for behaviour training and if I thought she posed a threat there would be no question on what needs to happen.
Sadly it's a situation I already had to deal with when our spaniel went for my son when he was just 11months old. My son didn't do anything to provoke it, he was simply stood in front of the dog about arms length away, the dog had never been very comfortable with him (he was 8 and had never really been around children till DS arrived) and decided he was too close and gave him a warning snap, he was not being vicious or intending to cause harm however that snap caused 2 minor punctures to the face (one was millimetres from his eye) and knocked him to the floor. I immediately punched the dog and screamed at him to get out in the garden while scooping up my son, and he stayed out there until MIL came round to pick him up and take him away. A split second action changed everything and just like that he was gone from our lives. I didn't blame the dog, he wasn't trying to injure my son just warn him off, he was normally a very loving dog and we were very sad he had to go, but he could not adjust to a child being present so there was no question that he could no longer live with us, we were very lucky that MIL was able to take him for us. It's made me very wary about our remaining dog.

It seems to me that the only person benefitting from the dog being there is your DH but unfortunately that's not good enough, it's not fair on you, your son, or the dog. I think the best thing for everyone would be to rehome him x

Might be an idea to stop tapping him on the nose and pointing at him. That is really confrontational and can actually make aggression issues worse. Welfare in Dog Training

I think you have been pretty clear that you do not like or trust the dog. You didn't want the dog, it was thrust upon you and you have every right to put your son first in these circumstances.

Options are;

1. dog behaviourist
2. try and ask a charity to rehome (I suspect he will be euthanised once they hear he has aggressive tendencies)
3. see if you can find a friend or family member to take him in (please make sure that person is very experienced with dogs and doesn't have cats or young children)
4. finally take him to the vet and ask them to put him down.

I'm absolutely furious and heartbroken for your poor dog. He's the only one who bears no responsibility at all for this - you aren't 100% angry at your dog? You should be 0% angry at him, none of this is your dog's fault any anger you have should be firmly at the feet of the adult humans that have caused this situation. Of course I'm not including your little boy either, just in case that isn't clear.
I'm not going to let rip and say what I would irl because, while you are certainly making it worse, you've been left to sort out a situation not of your own making and clearly have a lot of stresses going on.

No backyard money raker who sells dogs in the paper and breeds labradoodles is going to have any useful advice or resources and anyway clearly doesn't. She went along with the husbands ridiculous idea without a murmur and has not covered herself in glory.

Your dog was trained to be disciplined by being hit on the nose and told no?
Get rid of this dog to someone who knows how to look after it and can afford to pay to undo all the damage of his past and give him a happy, stress free life.
Any behaviourist (actual behaviourist not dog trainer) will be basically giving you opinions that require you completely change how you relate to, treat, train and manage this dog. You have a busy little boy, the day to day management of ASD and a DH who isn't taking responsibility. From what you've said I think it is going to be too much of a commitment to ask of you and it's unfair not to on the dog.
I spend lots of rl time smoothing little kinks out so dogs will have happier, problem free lives with their families but in this case I think the best thing all round is that he is rehomed asap before you turn him into a proper biter and end up with a dog being taken to be pts and an injured, most likely to be, child.
This isn't fair on your dog, it looks pretty unfair for you and your son. Find a good home for him and don't get another dog until you can devote the proper resources to looking after one, including proper behaviour and training methods.

If your DH is resentful I'm afraid that will still be a better outcome than a dog you are angry with, train threateningly, dislike, don't understand and don't supervise properly being put in the situations he is that could seriously hurt you or your child.

It's her mum who breeds dogs, and her MIL who got the dog.

I'm sorry OP I don't have any advice but I agree with Sebsmummy.

Contact the Dogs Trust. They will almost certainly be able to retrain and rehome him, and they never put down healthy dogs. In the unlikely event that he can't be rehomed, they keep them for life.

What Bernard said, poor dog.

Hi OP. The questions I asked were a little loaded I am afraid, as I suspected that you might have been using aversive or old fashioned techniques to discipline him. It seems incredibly common to me that so much outdated advice is still out there and believed, which just increases the stress on the dog. And increases the chances of fear related aggression showing its face again. Lil's link above is good.

I agree, your mum isn't breeding to add to her chosen breed of dog if she is breeding both Labradors and Cockerpoos (which are a cross breed to my mind, with a fancy name to make money), she's breeding to make money, which is a shame, when the rescue centres are so full anyway.

Everything bernard said, I am afraid, for the good of all concerned, and most importantly your son and dog.

Or your DH could agree to take on the cost of the accredited behaviourist, and the time, commitment and responsibility for re conditioning your dog and ensuring the rest of his days are happy, secure, trusting and loved

Why does this have to turn into a doodle bashing ? I have 3 labradoodles and I think they are wonderful- I'm not trying to make them a breed or anything -I don't care, but they are lovely, happy healthy dogs. Don't be such snobs. The lady I got my dogs from works hard to breed dogs from healthy lines to get a good cross with the best of both breeds.

When I read this , it seems clear to me that you have decided you would like to rehome the dog. It has to be a discussion between you and you husband though. Other wise you are as bad as him Getting the dog without asking. I would also say resist the urge to get a different dog. All dogs are hard work and shouldn't be left with children unsupervised. Maybe consider it again when your child is a lot older. And as a family discussion. I would avoiding tapping the dogs nose and generally waving fingers in their faces. You could also put holly along the top of your fences as cats don't like to walk along it. I would in the mean time use lots of treats and distraction tools like kongs. Your dog will never learn that your son is 'ok' if he is stuck behind a stair gate. If you have any real worries- don't wait - put a basket muzzle on the dog. If you don't deal with the situation and your dog hurts your little boy- provoked or not - your dog will be pts.