Puppy Farming

[Bathsheba3]

Just watching The Dog Factory on TV. Very upsetting. Poor animals. Programme reckons 1 in 3 dogs bought in UK are from puppy farms. Sad statistics if true, watching the conditions they are born into.

That was grim wasn't it? I think a link to that needs to be at the top of the Doghouse and everyone who says they want a puppy/dog should be advised to watch it.

Do not buy dogs off the internet/Gumtree etc, there is a reason they are cheap.....

If people don't buy from them then the market is reduced and hopefully the farms will reduce.

I watched that. Appalling.

I very very nearly bought from a puppy farm earlier on this year. It was one of these poodle-crosses. I came on here to ask for puppy advice and The Doghouse helped open my eyes - thankfully before I bought.

I ended finding a dog club, visiting a dog show, finding a breeder and went in her waiting list. I'm visiting my pedigree puppy for the first time next week!

Anyway, sadly in my circle of friends and family many of them have 'designer' crosses bought off the internet. My BIL's two puppies were very poorly and nearly died. He still swears blind it was a proper breeder. He thinks I've been "faffing about too much" finding my breeder.

one in three???!!

well that explains a lot of gumtree/petsforhomes

My DDog 2 is a rescue - she had been a puppy farm breeder her whole life. 2 years old and rarely saw anything outside of her crate. Not toilet trained, terrified of people.

She's turned herself around now but the condition she was in was hearbreaking. These people should be locked up in small dog crates.

My DBs dog is the same cupcakes. Ex breeding dog that was about to be put down as she was now not of use anymore !
My DB and family took her in, it was sad at first, she was scared and didn't even know how to play - she's a different dog now, full of life !

It's horrible!
So if you don't want a rescue and want a puppy of a specific breed how can you make sure you aren't supporting puppy farms?
Obviously avoid Gumtree or similar but any other tips? Is the breed society the besy way to go? Or Kennel club?

hopping yes - KC lists approved breeders. Ask questions. See the parents. If you have ANY DOUBTS walk away.

We were suckered in with DDog 1 - he was a "rescue" puppy, we were told the litter had been dumped. This was a small, local rescue, well known in the local area.

They were shut down a year later and it turned out they'd been acting as a front for a puppy farm. We'd had no idea. They are sneaky.

Hoppinggreen Breed clubs are a very good place to start, not least because they're run by people passionate about the breed. Each breed has a national club and usually several (or many, depending on their popularity) regional clubs. It's also good to pop along to shows, there are loads up and down the country every weekend. Breed clubs run both small and large shows for their specific breed and going along to spectate is a great way to meet owners and breeders.

The KC Assured Breeder scheme is great in theory but a lot of decent breeders are choosing not to be a part of it because in practise it's not as good as it should be. It's a reasonable starting point but it's certainly not a definitive list of excellent breeders.

Always see the pups with their mother but in many cases the sire will not be owned by the breeder, he may not be local or even in the UK. If a breed has recommended health tests the breeder should be happy to show you the bitch's certificates and copies of those of the dog. You can check what health tests are recommended for each breed on this website. You can also check health test results if you have the dog's full KC name using this page on the KC site. They should be happy to talk through with you why they picked that particular sire for their bitch, what makes them a good match and what they're hoping to produce.

Expect the breeder to grill you to within an inch of your life. They'll generally want to know why you've picked that particular breed, what your home and lifestyle is like, what your plans for a puppy are. They also generally want to meet the whole family and see how they interact with their adult dogs before meeting the puppies (if they currently have any).

It's worth approaching breeders you like the look of even if they don't currently have a litter on the ground, some will advertise when they're planning a litter (on sites like Champdogs) but for many the advertising is done by word of mouth and whole litters can be spoken for before they're even born. For two of my pedigree dogs I'd put my name down for them before the dam and sire had even met!

I'd always ring potential breeders rather than emailing them. For some reason there seem to be a high proportion of people in the dog world who are rubbish at responding to emails

the kc assured breeder scheme is a laugh....they have to be health checked (great), but it doesn't matter what the results of thise screens are. I know an assured breeder who has just had a litter of pups , the father has cataracts already at 20 months and so failed his eye tests..........laughable

thats awful about the health checks

we are looking for a puppy. we found a lot of local walking groups for our kind of dog. the people there have been v friendly and informative about breeders local to us

Not an absolute but I'd say that if you're wanting a specific breed and it's super easy to get hold of a puppy then the places you are looking at are probably not reputable breeders. Took us a year to get one of our cockers. Also, litters available at Xmas always set alarm bells ringing for me. Champ dogs is good but also some dodgy people on there as well as good.

I would echo what SmartAlex said.

I'm about to meet my puppy next week. I found my breeder through a regional dog show where I met the sire and the mum and was told of the intention to breed them. This was February.

It's taken me about 18 months to get to this point. I very nearly got a puppy from Wentwood puppies until I was told it rang huge alarm bells. I've since gone off the idea of a 'poo-dog' all together.

I found the list of KC assured breeders a bit hard to get in with. Many didn't answer messages or even phonecalls. My breeder has won awards for her dogs but wasn't on the list.

We wretched very lucky that we knew our breeder anyway and she had visited our home many times ano knew we were a good fit.
She also rejected three other hopefuls for the litter we got our boy from , all from the first meeting.
One had not told the truth about available gargen space ( ie none !) , one couple spent the entire 1/2 an hour glued to their mobiles and wouldn't commit to the 4 visit your puppy sessions she does and another One screamed and gagged when their potential puppy peed on them.
This us why it's so important to meet the breeder/bitch.

Sorry to hijack, DP and I want a puppy but not for another year/18 months.

We know what breed we want but want a little more time to research training ect. Also want the DC to be slightly older.

Anyway, should we be ringing breeders now? Just after reading this thread, I didn't realise it would take so long to be able to find a decent breeder.

it doesnt always take that long, honestly! depends what breed you are after, for a start.

Ah good, I was getting a bit worried then. I didn't want to commit to any thing before we had 100% decided. But at the same time didn't want to wait too long as 12-18 months is the perfect time frame for us. (A few months before I return to work properly so I'd be at home for the pup) we are 95% on a springer spaniel.

I watched The Dog factory (it took a while to find on catchup, I didn't realise it was listed under Scottish BBC)

Yes it was upsetting but programmes like these have been aired before and sadly, the message isn't getting through

There was a Melinda Messenger/Dom Littlewood investigation a while back. They had the secret filming, the scenes of the puppies . Then they bought two very underage and ill puppies from a seller.
They "couldn't leave them" so had to rescue them. That is how these sellers operate, the buyer who 'saves' the puppy (ok, it makes a huge difference to the puppy and you'd need a heart of stone to walk away). But the cycle continues .
These puppies ended up on drips in the vets but they did recover.

It beggars belief though that the message hasn't filtered through.

In a reality how do you get a puppy of you don't find via an internet site. I am looking to purchase a puppy around the end of July to co incide with school holiday and being off work for 6 weeks. I want a toy sized but not particularly fussed about whether its pure bred.
I cant really see any other way of finding one.

Queencori - there has been lots of discussion on this thread about how to source a puppy in an ethical way. Bluntly, if you are only starting your search now, it's unlikely you'll find one that isn't puppy farmed in the time frame you are looking at. Puppy farmers know that school holidays are a popular time so will be only too happy to offer you lots of litters - just like the run up to Christmas.

All the unsold spares will then be dumped in September and January.

The other option especially if you are flexible on breed is to have a look round some rescues - many rescues regularly have pups.

How do you define 'farm' though.
From what ive seen on here it appears that any dog that is not born to a liscened breeeder is considered 'farmed' . Growing up our dogs had puppies. Mixed poo breeds before they became popular. They were loved family pets , the puppies were sold to families in and friends pre internet.

Puppy farming is the intensive rearing of pups purely for profit - effectively the dogs are treated as agricultural animals (like a battery chicken, say) rather than the individual attention dedicated breeders provide. Many puppy farmers ARE licensed - a puppy farmer can have up to 90 breeding bitches for instance, all churning out litters. Often bitches are kept in dark, no stimulation, no enrichment for pups.

Pups are then sold on to wholesalers which in turn pass them on to retailers, usually for internet sales. There are many websites and organisations which highlight the horrors of puppy farming including CARIAD, Puppy Watch and many others.

The situation you refer to is more often described as a BYB - Back Yard Breeder. Pups are born usually to make a quick buck, with no care taken over the matching of sire and bitch, no health checks (and for poodles, this is important), and no history of either showing or working the dogs to demonstrate their quality.

Just another thought - it in your own best interests NOT to buy a pup from a dodgy background. These pups are likely under nourished, under socialised and under handled. The chances of them growing up into psychologically normal well-adjusted dogs are stacked against you. Why would you want a pup that is likely predisposed to a lifetime of behavioural (and probably genetic/physical) problems just because is cheap or convenient?

Please look at breed rescues, general rescues and responsible breeders - for the sake of your family as well as the dogs.

We got our puppy from dogs trust. They don't put them on the website so I had to ring and check if there were any pups there. You have to be quick and persistent. I rang at 4pm to be told there was a litter on terrier crosses, we got there at 6pm and got the last pup. There was literally someone waiting behind us who was next in line, another half an hour and we would've missed out. I was ringing nearly every day for a few weeks to find the right match for us, it's not always easy getting them to answer the phone!

queencori Many Tears rescue often has litters of puppies - have a look at their website. They're in Wales.

Babe, same here. We got our 9 week old staffy cross from Dogs Trust. We went in to have an initial chat/look around and they put us on the 'Puppy List'. Then I phoned daily for two months! It was, they told me, their longest puppy drought in living memory - normally, they have pups come in all the time! But eventually, one Saturday morning, I rang and they had 7 staffy crosses. I have always had bull terriers and was only interested in having a staffy or staffy cross so these were what we'd been waiting for.

The woman on the phone said the pups had just come in the day before and were riddled with worms, so they wouldn't be up for viewing til Monday. But on Sunday I just had this feeling... rang again, got another person, who this time told us that we could come and see them today.

We piled in the car, raced there and already, only a couple of hours on, three pups had gone! The pup we most liked (the only one with an eye patch and a bitch) happened to not have been reserved, so we reserved her. Whilst we were there, another pup went. If I'd listened to the woman on the phone and left it til Monday -they'd all have been gone! Not her fault - things change!

Later, doing the paperwork, I mentioned we were on the 'Puppy List' and the woman went off to find it and returned with a file that had HUNDREDS of forms in it! There was I fondly imagining maybe 20 - 30 families were on the waiting list. It was a first come first served thing but it helped to be on the list.

But within a week, a litter of 10 GSD crosses came in (I saw one later at training class - they were stunning!) And my friend went a week later and was told a large litter of black labs had just all been reserved. So after 2 months of no pups, suddenly they had the best part of 30 in one week.

I'd say to anybody - forget breeders and Gumtree, etc (puppy farmed)... if you want a pup get yourself to the Dogs Trust or similar; if you're suitable, get on the puppy list and phone them daily. You WILL get a pup and it will have been checked over by the vet, flea'd, wormed, vaccinated, and be neutered at a later date all for that initial £80 in our case - I think they charge different for different pups.

You will also get free, lifelong advice from a trainer/behaviourist. If everyone looked to rescue for their next pup, puppy farms would be gone in a very short time.