collie x poodle: cadoodle

[ThePrisonerOfAzkaban]

I've got lovely collie bitch, not your mad collie temp, lovely, calm, very trainable, acts more like an lab then anything else. We've been asked by many family/friends to see if we are going to breed from her, this is something we are now considering. We are thinking of putting her too a small/med poodle, from research they seem to be a good cross. Anyone have any experience? Ta

And surely it wouldnt be called a cadoodle? Maybe coddle or poolie

Oh FFS. Go to a rescue and look at all the unwanted dogs mainly cross breeds. It's not a breed it's a mongrel! Your family had a bad experience with a rescue but not all rescue dogs are bad so don't rule that out. You have no reason to breed her.

Dear me PoA - you have triggered some unpleasant responses here! Possibly this wasn't the best forum for this query...
I know where you are coming from - living with animals and taking responsibility for their wellbeing and contentment is nowadays confined to a minority of people. Responsible breeding is possible and many of us now, with the internet, are able to find animals from excellent homes - or indeed take on some who need a new place. the new charity homes4horses.net is an example of this.
Pedigree breeding has been under the spotlight in recent years - the RSPCA and Crufts springs to mind. Personally I prefer cross-breeding as better for dogs and owners as the hybrid vigour makes them healthier and longer lived. It is scandalous how pedigree dogs have been inbred; I experienced this as a teen when our beloved Cavalier KC Spaniel died in my arms aged 5 from a heart attack.
Poodle crosses benefit from the excellent temperament and intelligence and also of course the lack of shedding. I shudder to hear of fighting and guard dogs in homes with babies arriving as the risks are significant (and no not every animal of a particular breed is dangerous - it is just that you often do not know before it is too late).
I am also concerned that so many are happy to deprive an animal of its natural purpose. Some bitches, ewes, mares etc are wonderful mothers and others are lousy with many in between. The worry about excess animals is of course addressed by those who keep in touch and will always support or take/buy back an animal. We have horses on loan and that we 'own' but they have Facebook pages where their current or previous 'owners' can see what they are doing and offer advice or past experience to help us. They are the back up that, should something happen to us, they would take over responsibility and prevent the horse going to market and the slippery slope as in Black Beauty.
You do seem to be thinking it through and crossbreds - especially poodle crosses do make excellent family pets which is why more people are choosing them and not pedigree dogs.

All the best to you!

'I am also concerned that so many are happy to deprive an animal of its natural purpose.'

Utter bollocks.

Personally I prefer cross-breeding as better for dogs and owners as the hybrid vigour makes them healthier and longer lived.

Wrong. Crossbreeding is not a guarantee of health at all, especially when it's just crossing two pedigree breeds, both of which can suffer from the same inherited conditions.

There seems to be a real misconception these days that crosses and mongrels are somehow guaranteed to be free of genetic/inherited health problems and that's just not true. I'd much rather rely on health testing than crossing random breeds and hoping for the best.

I've had one proper mongrel of completely indeterminate heritage who had an inherited hear murmur. I've also got a BC x who was completely blind by the time she was 18 months old thanks to juvenile cataracts which is also an inherited condition. She was able to have surgery to restore some degree of sight but it's highly likely she'll have further issues as she ages. The only guarantee for avoiding certain health conditions is by health testing the bitch and stud dog before they're bred from.

Poodle crosses benefit from the excellent temperament and intelligence and also of course the lack of shedding.

Again, the lack of shedding is not guaranteed and depends entirely on which genes the pups inherit from which parents. It's possible for an entire litter of poodle crosses to not have the poodle type coat, which is why breeding these crosses specifically for the non-shedding coat is such a daft idea when there are already breeds that exist which are guaranteed to have the appropriate coat type.

What, just like the 1 day old cross breed litter of pups in with their poor mother on the Paul o grady battersea programme right now? Labrador cross, labollies or something I expect.

The point isn't whether they are pedigree or not. It is the amount of fucking people who are breeding their dogs when we are saturated with rescue animals - even day old puppies ffs.
And cross breeds don't mean hereditary disease isn't passed on, particularly if the parents aren't tested for it. A cavachon is just as likely to die in your arms from heart disease, and your non shedding coat is irrelevant if it gets the collie coat isn't it.
Just because they are cross breeds doesn't make it right.

You do not get hybrid vigour by crossing two breeds of dog with inherited diseases in common.

Many cross posts!

I work at a specialist university vet hospital and the amount of poodle crosses we see coming in with major health issues is rising. So much for crossbreeds being healthier. Unfortunately the people buying these dogs don't realise that they aren't getting some super dog who is immune from health problems. Saw some cocker x poodle puppies recently who both have heart conditions requiring surgery which will cost around £4k each. The owner had no insurance and had bought two of them. They have some tough decisions to make.

So if I suggested a lab, most of you wouldn't be SO against (still against though - I'm not saying that) The reasons I suggested a poodle was the body size, as I would want to reduce risk. If I do go though all health checks will be carried out, and my vet lives 2 doors down, and keeps her horse with mine. She's happy for me to breed from my dog, in fact she's even said she may have a pup herself, this post got us talking about it. After having 4 kc reg labs die in the family within the past 2 years- 2 cancer, 1 throat paralysis, and 1 from a twisted gut, I'm inclined to stay away from pure bred dogs, and also which is what I've been advised twice now once by the vet tonight and from my dog trainer/walker to cross her with something.
As for shedding, that's not an issue, we aren't bothered so much about that.

No. I would suggest you get your dog spayed to give the thousands of dogs languishing, suffering and dying in Rescues and Pounds a chance.

I would suggest you find a more worthwhile employment other than being the lowest of the low and becoming a Backyard Breeder.

I would suggest you show your dog that you love and cherish her and get her sprayed, rather than let her be shagged and damaged and possibly killed just so you can bring yet another litter of mongrel puppies into an already overpopulated country.

And I would be saying this no matter what bitch, what dog and what money you were asking for them.

Don't breed. It's wrong.

What are you hoping to gain from breeding from her? I would never breed from a dog I owned. Not just because there is no need to bring more dogs into the world but also because bitches can die from giving birth and I would never forgive myself. Get her spayed and enjoy her for being the dog she is.

Nope labs also have the same health issues, that's why labradoodles are so controversial.

Breeding is not something you should be doing just because your dog is nice.

I've never seen a cross of this type. I happen to agree with you that temperament is very important, and too few breeders worry about that imo. However, I wouldn't breed your girl. The risk to her would worry me, and there's no guarantee that her calm nature would be passed down. Any pups would be an unpredictable mix in looks and temperament. Just my opinion, and I own a spaniel cross and a f1b cockapoo.

Twisted gut or bloat is a condition that all deep chested breeds are susceptible too. It is about frame, not a inherited genetic condition.....if you were so onto your animal husbandry, and vet two doors down, how did you miss it? Those with supposed hybrid vigour ( which you may get, or you may get a mongrel with every possible inherited condition) could still get bloat if they have that frame....

I didn't say it was my dog, the twisted gut was my nans.

If I do go though all health checks will be carried out

Health checks =/= health tests.

Your vet giving you the all clear means bugger all in relation to genetic health. All your vet can tell you is that your bitch is outwardly healthy and, at the time of examination, there's nothing obvious which would affect her ability to successfully produce puppies.

Health tests are expensive, require specialists and, in some cases, general anaesthetics which is another risk for your bitch on top of those from pregnancy and birth.

And if your vet is actually advising or encouraging you to breed from your bitch I'd be finding another vet.

You really need to listen to eastpoint, her advice is the most sensible on this thread and I say that as a collie owner. :o

A horrific cross breed.

Although it must be said that poodle crosses are keeping my family fed and clothed.

I am a dog behaviourist.

Collie with a Poodle is a difficult cross breed and a mix that I have huge concerns over.

I am not sure what you are saying re a calm collie - most collie's that are trained correctly, worked properly need to be calm and have a lot of self control. Also taking advice from a trainer who says not to breed from a calm dog is just wrong.

Your bitch will gain no benefits or pleasure from being breed. So then the only reason you are doing it is for your personal benefit.

There are dogs needing homes - the market is saturated with dogs needing homes - why make the problem worse?

I have a collie x poodle; both her parents were lovely calm dogs (I know the breeder well), and, on paper, she should be an amazing dog. In reality, she's a bloody nightmare if I'm honest! She's unpredictable with other dogs, very, very dominant with every dog she meets, and has the herding instinct, so she rounds them all up, and is only happy if she's in control. She's very routine driven, and hates any changes. For example, whether I get up at 5am or 10am, she's quite happy to chill out until I'm ready to leave the house, but the first time I go out, it must be to walk her, or else I come back in to a huge puddle of wee on the floor. She gets obsessive about everything, and if she's seen a cat in a certain spot one day, she will look for that damned cat every single time we walk past that spot! She's not food motivated in the slightest, and when she fixates on a dog/cat, there is absolutely nothing I can do to get her attention back on me.

On a plus side, she's very intelligent and easily trainable, apart from when there's other dogs around to distract her. She's never been a chewer, and apart from the protest weeing if I don't walk her when she thinks I should, I barely know I've got her in the house. I love her to bits, but she's the craziest, strangest dog I've ever owned! My JRT pup is a bundle of growly, barky madness, but at least he's predictably mad

I have a gorgeous, calm, well-trained and sociable collie. He came from a rescue at 18 months old and has been a fabulous dog. Very sensibly he came to me neutered. He had been through 3 homes already, despite having no faults or issues. There are masses of collies and collie-crosses sitting in rescues looking for homes, please don't breed more. Even if your family and friends take one each, they've doomed the same amount of animals to die somewhere down the rescue chain. That's the reality.

The pups (if you're immoral enough to breed them) may end up looking somewhat like a Bearded Collie. There's a Beardie rescue if you friends and family want one, they don't have to wait for you to breed.

Please try to be a dog-lover over this issue, not just a lover of doing your own thing.

With our family is a home bred dog or no dog, so we wouldn't be saving anyway.
It's very early stages and only being talked about, wouldn't happen for at least 18 months -2 yrs, as we don't want to rush things, and make the right choice all round, including the dogs.

How old is your bitch? She looks to be an adult in that photo and if you're not planning on breeding for up to two years you may be leaving it far too late for her to have a first litter.

She's 9 months.