My dog bit someone else's child

[mel3714]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice. I have Oscar a 6 month old Sprocker, not yet neutered, we go to puppy training and he's fairly good with the basics. Over the last few weeks though his behaviour has changed. Among lesser things he has started guarding items he finds high value and had growled at me several times and has also air snapped at me whilst emitting a yelpy bark. He has also done this to our 5 year old too when she approached for a stroke but he was lying on something that he was guarding without me knowing, I was a couple of feet away. Then yesterday we were at a country park with another family, we'd spent several hours and eaten lunch together so he'd seen all the children and was fine. He was under the picnic table, sat right by my leg and a 7 yr old boy went to stroke him and he growled Oscar bit his fingers! Not hard enough to break the skin thank god but it was awful! He Akzo growled at the child's 2 year old brother I've he was out from under the table. I'm scared now that he could bite any one at any time without any signs and I'm scared for my children of 5 and 8. I don't know what to do. Very upset :

gosh he needs some behaviour training i think. he needs to let you take his food for a start. does he need neutering?

This may be controversial. Personally, I would never keep a dog that has bit anyone. It is too dangerous. My family came from working farms and the rule was always that if a dog bit anyone, no matter the reason, then it would not be safe to keep. Even a dog that has never bit someone should never be left alone with a child. It was the fingers this time but what about the next? Not including the stress it will cause the family if someone is really hurt or the dog bites in the face etc. Yes, you could get behavior training, but what do you do in the meantime and would the dog then be part of the family? Even after the training, would you be able to trust the dog?

I know a dog is for life...but a dog has to be safe also.

Speak to your vet, they should be able to refer you to a behaviorist. Most cases of dominance aggression are easily sorted particularly in a young dog.

jwpetal that's pretty much where my line in the sand has always been too! Just feel dreadful and not sure if I'm overreacting.

I'm with jwpetal. If a strangers dog bit my little one of strongly suggest... Well. A nip here and there could end in tragedy and I just wouldn't risk it. Sorry, I know it not what you want to hear but I feel strongly about dogs and young children - myself having been bitten as a young child.

Sorry yes me too.
If my dog ever bit he would have to go.
It all happens so quickly. Could you guarantee than you would never leave the dog with the children even when you answer the door/pop to the loo/put the bin out/kettle on etc etc...

You would never forgive yourself if it was worse next time

I disagree with jwpetal. This is a young dog and behaviour training can work. Our spaniel also tried to bite at this age - it's normal as they're exploring their world - and similar to what human infants and toddlers do. It's not the same as aggressive biting, although you might want to supervise any close contact with kids very carefully until he grows out of it. I found dog training classes useful - and also a book called "The perfect puppy." Good luck.

he needs to become more submissive, not less. he doesn't need to be guarding things at 6 months, or ever ideally.

did he think he was being offered food and that the fingers were food?
did he look sheepish/guilty after that?

So he was sat under a table when the child reached down to stroke him. Would he have seen the hand coming? Did it give him a fright?

Yes the dog needs training and more work on socialisation but I don't think putting him down is necessary. A good training class will get you to repeat activities over and over that make them uncomfortable to show that it is nothing to be worried about.

For example my pup hated getting groomed. She would bite and chew the brush and the hand doing it. The training classes we went to showed us to give her lots of treats and encouragement until she got comfortable.

Your dog is showing signs of anxiety and it is up to you to show him that he is safe.

We had a Springer, was a wonderful dog for my DH but when he was out wouldn't tolerate me or the DCs he would growl and snap he bit DS and sorry but that was the end of the dog.

The boy had been playing in the sand and returned to the table so I don't think he smelt of food. The dog growled at the same boy and his 2 year old brother after the incident when he was no longer under the table too. He has also growled at me for talking to him while he was eating this morning and peed whilst growling. He also freezes if you go near him when he is playing with any of his things more often than not. I'm not suggesting puttng hin to sleep rather possibly rehoming to someone with more experience than a first time dog owner with small children (our lives are full of other people's small children too)

He's definitely young enough to be rehabilitated. Sounds to me like he's got ideas above his station and he reacts when he thinks something is going to be taken away that he believes is "his".

Just as an immediate reaction to prevent anything else happening until you get some advice from a behaviourist, remove all his toys. Be valued then far too much at the moment. He should be thinking that they are your toys that you are allowing him to play with.

Also start feeding him his meals by hand. You are the one offering him your food.

Encouraging him to sit and wait before he does anything! Before going out to the loo, eating, walking through a door etc. It sound like he is too impulsive.
You must feel completely devastated but I truly believe he can be taught to change. If you are insured through PetPlan and get a behaviourist that is registered with certain associations (can't remember what they are but give them a call and they can let you know). Other insures might well offer it too but I don't know who.

It's horrid when this sort of thing happens and my heart really does go out to you. I can only say I understand as I had a dog pts because of aggression too and it is hard but we had exhausted every avenue first.

I didn't mean have him pts either- re home to someone without small children

You need to act quickly and you need to act sensibly

Do not take advice on this from the internet or a forum with people who are not qualified and cannot see the situation in real life

Make a vet appointment today to have a full medial check and get them to refer you to an APBC member asap.

Do not listen to anyone who talks about dominance training or needing to show the dog his place in the pack - that is incorrect and dangerous outdated training.

This is not normal puppy play biting

Your dog is showing extreme anxiety and you need to be told how to recognise the signs and the correct treatment plan

You need a lot of qualified support

Yes your dog could easily bite your children if you do not recognise the trigger signs so get help asap

I can not say if you need to rehome the dog but a qualified behaviourist will be able to see the extent of the problem

If he peed while growling if be inclined to think he is scared. Definitely a behaviourist. Also try the book 'Scaredy Dog' which is quite helpful.

I'd not if!

Didn't see the peed whilst growling until after I had posted.

Agree that a behaviourist with a 'hands off' approach is the best. Ultimately this will take a lot of dedication, effort and consistency from the whole family. If that is going to be difficult, perhaps rehoming to a more experienced him might be the way forward. Hoping that you get some help soon but don't beat yourself up about it.

It's not dominance.
He doesn't need to be "more submissive".
Pack theory waffle is meaningless and doesn't help at all.

This is quite likely to be sortable but you do need a decent behaviourist.

Thanks so much everyone, I'm going to talk to our normal trainer today and then make a vet appointment. I'll speak to a behaviorist to, I do have Petplan ins, I'll look into that too. It might still comes down to rehoming depending on what they say. Thanks again everyone.

perhaps he is ill?
anyway, take him to the vet

Thing is, trainers vary hugely. A trainer who still clings to pack theory - a glance over this thread and others in TDH will show just how few people are aware of up to date methods - might be ok for the basics. But in cases like this getting it wrong could be disastrous.

This is NOT "dominance" or having "ideas above his station" and if you go down the "pack theory" route or use a trainer who believes in that discredited nonsense you will 100% ruin this dog and effectively condemn him to death. Nor is it usual puppy play-biting. This is classic insecurity/fear/only partial socialisation manifesting itself.

However it IS fixable, especially at six months old, with time, effort, consistency and above all else an excellent trainer. First of all, take pup to the vets and rule out any physical causes. Then ask your trainer what they think of Cesar Milan's methods - if they're an enthusiastic advocate, run a mile and find someone who uses positive reinforcement. Some TTouch bodywork can also help a nervous or insecure dog become more confident.

Good luck.

Whereabouts are you OP? If you're anywhere near Worcester I can recommend a fantastic dog trainer/behaviourist.

"Ask your trainer what they think of Cesar Millans methods"

Not a bad idea....however I know of a "behaviourist" who has no time for CM, in fact correctly calls him a bully BUT who still comes out with a lot of stuff I disagree with (Jan Fennell-ish guff about most problem behaviours stemming from the dog taking too much responsibility, don't let the dog win tug games etc which is still a kind of watered down pack theory).