My dog bit someone else's child

[mel3714]

Hi everyone, I'm looking for some advice. I have Oscar a 6 month old Sprocker, not yet neutered, we go to puppy training and he's fairly good with the basics. Over the last few weeks though his behaviour has changed. Among lesser things he has started guarding items he finds high value and had growled at me several times and has also air snapped at me whilst emitting a yelpy bark. He has also done this to our 5 year old too when she approached for a stroke but he was lying on something that he was guarding without me knowing, I was a couple of feet away. Then yesterday we were at a country park with another family, we'd spent several hours and eaten lunch together so he'd seen all the children and was fine. He was under the picnic table, sat right by my leg and a 7 yr old boy went to stroke him and he growled Oscar bit his fingers! Not hard enough to break the skin thank god but it was awful! He Akzo growled at the child's 2 year old brother I've he was out from under the table. I'm scared now that he could bite any one at any time without any signs and I'm scared for my children of 5 and 8. I don't know what to do. Very upset :

I'm in Milton Keynes but just don't know if I can risk it with my young children here. I don't know where to start if we decide to rehome though. The dog needs someone who knows what they're doing.

What nuttymutty1 said.

This is a very serious situation. Do not attempt to deal with it yourself or follow random advice off the internet from people who have not seen the dog. Make an appointment for your vet to check for a physical cause (unlikely but you never know) and then get your vet and trainer to recommend a behaviourist asap (APDT or APBC usually have reliable people).

Meanwhile keep the dog away from the children. Use a crate or stair gates or room dividers and stay safe.

The poor dog has pretty much been in the kitchen behind the gate since yesterday afternoon, apart from when the kids were in bed when he was with us as usual. I understand how serious this is and want to do the best thing for him and us!

www.caessr.org.uk

Contact these people if you are thinking of reforming.

Rehoming

I had similar, probably worse problems with my dog. He managed to bite a few people when we first got him. First person he nipped was one of dd's friends when they were all sat in the car, bad enough to leave a bruise. Ditto my neighbour, he was on his lead and just suddenly sank his teeth in her leg with no warning. Got me a few times, my mum once and dh quite a few times.

I ordered a basket muzzle and he was muzzled if anyone came to the house or if we were out. I also found someone who's meant to be one of the best behaviourists in the country.....at £160 an appt it wasn't cheap but the advice we were given was the best. I knew I had to do everything I could.

It was hard. I'd nearly rehomed him to a rescue at one point, I also actually had an appt at the vets for him to be pts.

He is like a different dog now. He's fine with everyone apart from he still growls at dh in certain trigger situations. But he doesn't seem to mean it as much as he used to. Dd had 4 friends for a sleepover the other weekend and the dog played happily with the girls all weekend. I wasn't worried for one second that there would be a problem and I don't actually muzzle him anymore though I do keep a very close eye on him and wouldn't let him sleep in he same room as the girls.

I do think that behaviour like this in a young dog can be changed but it takes a lot of work. I was also in a better position that I was never scared for dd. the dog never showed any aggression to her and in fact seemed to be guarding her from everyone else. Dd was also older.

You need to think hard about whether you can make this work with young children that the dog may be aggressive towards. I'd say it took six months for me to feel I could trust my dog enough to not be worried. Dh still can't go in dd's bedroom and if I'm in her bedroom I'd never turn my back on him still.

Nuttymutty gives brilliant advice. I have a highly strung fear aggressive spaniel with poor socialisation background. Thankfully, he is only reactive to other dogs. It's still hard work and stressful. In your situation I would be looking into rehoming the dog to an experienced owner through caessr. There is still time to turn his behaviour around, but you need to be honest with yourself as to whether you have the time and commitment. Ime, spaniels are highly strung and sensitive dogs and changing a base anxious personality is impossible, you can only teach a more appropriate response. Doesn't mean the dog will ever be truly comfortable iyswim.

What nuttymutty said x 10

This is not dominance. This is not being above his station. This is not him thinking he's top of the pack. Nor is it normal puppy mouthing.

This is extreme anxiety. This urgently needs a properly qualified behaviourist practising modern, science based methods. You need to contact the APBC for a guarantee of this from your behaviourist. There are a lot of very plausible, very experienced people out there calling themselves dog behaviourists and practising harmful and disproven methods.

In the meantime keep him behind a stair gate if the children are around. While he is occupied elsewhere remove all of the things he guards. Feed him in a locked room or under your direct supervision, but without disturbing him.

Good luck.

It's not the same as aggressive biting Backed up by the growling, it most certainly is.

There's a big difference between fear aggression and aggression.

A dog will growl in both situations.

My dog is/was fear aggressive. One of his first signs of fear is growling - he's saying he's not happy, that he's scared and that he wants someone to go away and leave him.

You shouldn't tell a dog off for growling like that. Instead people need to respond to what they're been told and back off. If you tell a growling dog off then the next time they won't growl/warn but will go straight into a silent bite.

i just wondered which of Mutty's advice shoudl be taken

*You need to act quickly and you need to act sensibly

Do not take advice on this from the internet or a forum with people who are not qualified and cannot see the situation in real life

Make a vet appointment today to have a full medial check and get them to refer you to an APBC member asap.*

contradiction there!

i am sure every poster means well. We did not see the situation.

Growling is not aggression, that is a very common misconception. It is the way a dog communicates "I am not happy or confident about this situation".

My friend has a working cocker. A few months after she got her-maybe around the 6 month mark, the dog started growling and snapping. At my friend and her son.
They went to a behaviourist, not sure what she said/they did, but she is a wee pet now. Lovely, safe, friendly doggy.
There is hope.

ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/resource-guarding/

This has some ideas for you to think about that reinforces what others say on here. By mentioning "ideas above his station" I fear I have confused others and probably myself. To a degree I still stand by that, but only because he hasn't learned how to control his emotions yet.

It's become frightfully complex owing a dog nowadays and it's a minefield as to what method to use, how everyone is right and wrong and an expert in their preferred way of training, and all with success stories.

Ultimately, I do not agree with any approach that uses physical contact with a dog as a form of correction. Positively rewarding good behaviours is the way forward, IMO.

The reason I suggested keeping all toys away for now is to eliminate as much risk as possible from anyone accidentally antagonising the dog and causing him to bite anyone. Not because he has ideas above his station. Find a behaviourist that works for you and what you feel is correct.

slarty much of the advice preceding nutty's on this thread made reference to dominance. Any behaviourist worth their salt will know that this is nothing to do with dominance. Nutty was just suggesting the OP should seek proper professional advice and directing her as to where that can be found.

There is a lot of debate among laymen about how best to train a dog. But in scientific terms, the way dogs learn is very well understood and not up for debate. Understanding learning theory can help you not only understand their motivation but also how to resolve problems. That is why it is important to find some help from someone who not only thinks they understand dog behaviour but who has been tested and has proven that they fully understand it by undergoing an appropriate level of training, and then achieving a qualification, preferably to degree level.

Just got back from training, the trainer seems to advocate the 'show him who's boss' method and I don't want to do that so I won't be going back there I still can't decide if our family has the ability to put this right or if we should rehome but I'm going to look at the website someone kindly mentioned and also contact a qualified behaviorist before making a decision. Thank you so much everyone.

The day when there is some sort of regulation regarding dog training can't come soon enough. It's too easy to set yourself up as a trainer or even call yourself a behaviourist.

www.regansdogtraining.co.uk/

I used this chap. Cereal dog is a rescue from abroad and Regan has his own rescue and helps very traumatized rescue dogs from Romania/Bulgaria.

No great advice but I really feel for you. We have just been through this as our otherwise adorable rescue dog was stressed by strangers in the house and culminated with him biting a visiting family member :( he was 18mo and we'd only had him a month.

We did a lot of soul-searching and decided that we didn't have the expertise or time to give him the training he needed (novice dog owners, both working), and that a busy family home wasn't best for him. The rescue he came from has a no-kill policy so at least we know that if he can't find a suitable home he'll live there and be looked after well. It was a heartbreaking decision though.