Desperate for some advice, someone please help!

[Nades84]

This is a bit of a long post so please bare with me! I am absolutely desperate for some advice regarding my partners dog and the soon to be birth of our first child together. He moved in a couple of months ago along with his 9 year old male border collie. I feel like I'm at the end of my tether and I'm terrified of what it's going to be like when the baby is born in 6 weeks time.

I'll start with a bit about the dogs past; he was bought from dogs r us by his original owners. They couldn't cope with him so gave him to someone else, new owners couldn't cope either so gave him back to the original ones. They decided to rehome him again so my partner then had him when he was 18 months old. Lived with his ex and dog until they split and then it was just him and the dog until we met a couple of years ago.

Now the dog is an absolute nightmare! Here's a few of his 'problems':

-Recall is none existent
-Pulls on the lead
-Tries to herd everything that moves including cars and people
-constantly jumps up at the tv
-barks at every little noise
-demands attention all the time
-begs for food
-goes mental at other dogs
-will only sit after telling him to do so numerous times
-he's very dominant
-growled/nipped at me and my partner
-growls/barks when anyone tries to leave the room
-he's very jealous if my partner comes near me

And they are only the things I can think of off the top of my head! BUT the thing that is really worrying me is his reaction to babies and the way he tries to herd my 12 year old son. Whenever he sees/hears a baby he barks/whines/growls and tries to lick/sniff it and goes beserk if he isn't allowed near. Even if the baby is on the tv his reaction is just as bad. Obviously being due to have a baby soon I'm constantly worrying what he will be like. My dad (who has had/trained working dogs for years) says he wouldn't let him in the same room as the baby for a second. I just don't know what to do? My partner treats him like his baby and I don't think he realises how much it's getting me down. He works long hours so it's down to me to look after him while he's at work.

I just feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=32361
Wiccaweys are a border collie rescue that offer behavioural advice too. But imo you need to start working on the basics anyway

My dog is a similarly high drive breed. She would be totally INSANE on that level of exercise.
Even with 2plus hours running off lead, she would be a pain in the arse without mental stimulation. Imo it is even more important than the physical exercise for our types of breed.
It doesn't need to be huge amounts of time and it's something you could do at home yourself. Simple stuff such as scattering some f his food to find on the grass rather Than feeding from a bowl, and making him work for his food by doing simple obedience stuff like sits,down,leave it and stay etc.
If you really can't persuade him and are not prepared to insist on the trainer (big mistake imo, but your call obviously) then a good trainer online posts on youtube as Kikopup. Don't listen to anyone who talks of dominance or pack leader theories.....newer research has disputed these as rubbish but their are still a lot of old school types peddling it

Also, what are you feeding him?

I agree, I don't think he's having as much exercise as he needs. He'll be off the lead sometimes on the field but he'll have to go straight back on if there's another dog there. A dog walker is a good idea, I will see if there are any local to us.

Thank you so much Owllady! I will have a read through those boards. He's fed 3 scoops of Harringtons chicken and rice per day, plus bits of cheese, pasta and god knows what else DP gives him!

I think I'm really going to have to put my foot down on the trainer issue and insist that he gets someone ASAP! He has a kong which we sometimes fill with his food, that keeps him quiet for all of 5 minutes.

I have to admit that when it's just me in the house he isn't AS bad (sometimes) but when DP is home it's like he feels he has to take charge and boss everyone/everything around?

Having read this thread, and from the perspective of a vet, a parent and a dog owner, you need to have a professional help you out.

The dog might or might not be manageable with a baby around - we can't tell you that from a forum like this, it needs to be assessed by a professional. What I can tell you is that neither you or your partner have enough understanding of dogs, their behaviour or learning to be able to successfully manage this situation unless you get proper support now. That much is very clear.

Can you give us an idea of your location? The right behaviourist could come and talk to you both, meet your dog and if nothing else at least get your partner to understand that this situation needs action. In this situation it's as much about the counselling skills of the professional it is about their dog training ability, but you must ensure you do not find yourself taking the advice of a bad behaviourist or you will be putting your children at risk. An APDT or APBC member will be able to help you. I am sure you can get a start on this for less than £500.

OP, if your DP drags his feet over this, please think of some of those awful tragic cases of children being attacked by dogs in recent times.

Then imagine if the parents of those poor children had known full well that their dog was at risk, but did nothing about it.

What would you say to those parents?

That's what you need to say to your DP. Sorry to be blunt but please do what is best for you and the dog.

I should add that you're definitely doing the right thing asking for advice on here, didn't want it to sound like I was attacking you at all. I admire you for recognizing the problem and seeking to take action.

Good luck OP

Thank you cashewfrenzy totally agree, we haven't got a clue about training/behaviour etc although I'm sure my DP thinks he has! We're in Manchester. I've been having a look on the APDT website, are there any trainers that you know of that you would recommend?

Michonnes don't worry it doesn't sound like that at all, I'm very grateful for your advice! That's all I keep thinking about, those poor children who've been on the news recently. I've expressed my thoughts on that to DP but I'm sure he thinks that the dog won't be any danger to the baby, while I've made it clear that I don't trust him as far as I could throw him! Think I'm going to have to make it clear that if nothing changes on the training front then he'll have to look at the possibility of re homing him, I'm not going to even risk the chance of putting my baby in danger

If you can get to here: www.behavioural-referrals.co.uk/ then go - Sarah Heath is the shiz

Just to emphasise - I do not think that you need a consultation to train your dog.

You need a consultation so that someone with skills and knowledge can help you identify how much of a problem this is likely to be, what your options are and whether there is any firefighting you can do in the coming month to improve the situation.

It sounds like your partner isn't taking you seriously.mhave you sat him down and spoken about this or just made comments in passing. He needs to know how worried you are. I'd be threatening to move in with my parents / family when baby arrives until the dog is gone!

It's dreadful that you've been left with the dog and your dp doesn't seem at all interested in either you, the dog, or the baby.
Collies are brilliant and learn easily. They will just as easily learn the wrong things. They don't need loads of running around but they do need a job.

Thanks cashewfrenzy yes I agree we need someone to tell us what the problems are and whether there's any chance of rectifying them. Thanks for the link, I think they are the same ones that the vet referred us to. But I think it was Laura who was going to come to the house. They quoted £535 for the consultation but the insurance say they won't cover it so we had to cancel. Doubt we can afford that much money at the moment

imsosorryalan yeah I've sat him down so many times. Even last night I told him that I'm more worried about the dog than I am about giving birth, he knows and admits that's not how I should be feeling but I still don't think he quite "gets" it. I'm sure sometimes he thinks I'm just being a drama queen. While he was at work yesterday I had the doll in the blanket again to try and get the dog used to us holding something. The dog decided to fly at me to get to the "baby", had to put my leg up to stop him jumping on my stomach and he bit my foot! Told DP when he came home from work and all he said was "aw have you been a naughty boy"? I know there's no point in punishing him after it's happened but he didn't seem bothered, tried to explain what if that was an actual baby instead of a doll? Can definitely see me threatening to go somewhere else if nothing changes, just don't feel like I'm getting anywhere, it's exhausting

easy I think he is interested in us, I just don't think he understands what it's going to be like once there's a newborn in the house. It's his first child whereas I've already got a 12 year old DS so been there and done it as you say. Think his problem is he treats the dog more than a dog if you get where I'm coming from. Like when we go to bed at night he gives him a goodnight kiss? Now that could just be me not being a very doggy person, I had one growing up but never wanted one of my own. He's just too soft with him, I know it was just the two of them for a long time but suppose he needs to understand that he's got a family now that he needs to put first

Thanks cashewfrenzy yes I agree we need someone to tell us what the problems are and whether there's any chance of rectifying them. Thanks for the link, I think they are the same ones that the vet referred us to. But I think it was Laura who was going to come to the house. They quoted £535 for the consultation but the insurance say they won't cover it so we had to cancel. Doubt we can afford that much money at the moment

imsosorryalan yeah I've sat him down so many times. Even last night I told him that I'm more worried about the dog than I am about giving birth, he knows and admits that's not how I should be feeling but I still don't think he quite "gets" it. I'm sure sometimes he thinks I'm just being a drama queen. While he was at work yesterday I had the doll in the blanket again to try and get the dog used to us holding something. The dog decided to fly at me to get to the "baby", had to put my leg up to stop him jumping on my stomach and he bit my foot! Told DP when he came home from work and all he said was "aw have you been a naughty boy"? I know there's no point in punishing him after it's happened but he didn't seem bothered, tried to explain what if that was an actual baby instead of a doll? Can definitely see me threatening to go somewhere else if nothing changes, just don't feel like I'm getting anywhere, it's exhausting

easy I think he is interested in us, I just don't think he understands what it's going to be like once there's a newborn in the house. It's his first child whereas I've already got a 12 year old DS so been there and done it as you say. Think his problem is he treats the dog more than a dog if you get where I'm coming from. Like when we go to bed at night he gives him a goodnight kiss? Now that could just be me not being a very doggy person, I had one growing up but never wanted one of my own. He's just too soft with him, I know it was just the two of them for a long time but suppose he needs to understand that he's got a family now that he needs to put first

Oops sorry double posting again, stupid phone

Can you hold the toy baby but throw treats on the floor - the dog is rewarded for ignoring the toy baby but not for jumping at it.

Have pm you

Honestly i would suggest you contact them (the behaviour clinic) and explain you can't afford it and ask if they could direct you anywhere else. You haven't got time to lose really. I'm surprised your insurance does not cover it :(

Thanks nuttymutty1 I've replied

I will get DP to give them a call tomorrow, the lady that he spoke to when he rang to cancel was surprised as well that the insurance won't cover it. Even the vet said that most of the time they do, sods law that our policy doesn't!

He sounds so much like my collie girl who I lost last October.
She came to me age 10.
I already had 5 other collies and 2jrt

3 years ago my grandchildren came to live with me.
Aged 1 and 2
I would say for a good year I had staorgates up dogs never been with kids and dogs never been with kids
2 of the collies very very workie.

It took a lot of work but they are now best friends

One thing that really helped was walking dogs with buggy,the dogs knew when buggy came out was walkies time

They had to learn to walk by pram
Took a while but they walk better with pram than without.
They go off lead in park as long as they have tennis ball.

Its lovely how they all get on now,dogs really look out for kids

Anyway do try wiccaweys they give free advice and are a border collie rescue

At this stage of the game I'd either be rehoming the dog, or myself & kids.

Your partner will undermine anything you try and do training wise, and 9 months gone or with a newborn + spd really puts you out of the picture as far as anything other than company for the dog - sorry. He's had the dog years, and you've been up the duff a while now.

Bags packed and a week at my parents would be my next move. I'd leave the kidult the contact details for wiccaweys on the kitchen counter next to the kettle, before closing the front door behind me & going no contact. All you can do then is sit back and wait to see if your partner responds to fairly drastic actions, better than he has words.

Not often I suggest ultimatums in relationships or rehoming, but as I see it your partner has left you with no real choice. Babies have a habit of coming early if it's inconvenient for them to do so, which means you may not have a full 6 weeks left to get this sorted.

Just checking in to thank everyone for their advice! We have had a behaviourist round to the house woohoo DP finally listened to me (no need for any ultimatums!) and we found a lady on the APDT website who is fantastic. It's early days but I feel so much better already, feel like a tonne weight has been lifted off my shoulders

She's given us a plan of action for the next 3 weeks. This first week consists of completely ignoring the dog. After watching him for a couple of hours she seems to think that it's all down to attention, he wants it all the time and knows that if he jumps up at the tv or something else he knows he'll get it. She also seems to think that his reaction to babies crying is also attention based (going back to his first owners, must have shouted at him to be quiet when their child cried and bingo he thinks "oh I get attention for doing that!") and says he shouldn't be a problem with the baby if we can get him sorted out, which of course was what I was worried about the most.

So we are currently building up to the 'extinction burst' and he's trying everything possible to get attention from us including barking incessantly and diving on the tv/furniture at every opportunity, basically being a little s**t! Hopefully sometime soon it will peak (trainer thinks tomorrow) and then he'll realise that doing all these things isn't worth it because he doesn't get anything for it. Then we can start week 2 which will be reward based training.

Fingers crossed for us that our tv (and eardrums) survive the week

Well done ,sounds like you are really getting it sorted .

Well the peak definitely came at weekend with the bad attention seeking behaviour, only problem is it's stayed bad and not tailed off like the trainer said it would. The dog even snapped at my DS on Sunday, that light at the end of the tunnel is fading away very quickly

Don't you have email support from her? I think it is very important to have your hand held through challenges like this.

Yes we have her email and all her numbers, DP spoke to her yesterday and she suggested trying the ignoring him thing for 3 more days then we have to give her another call. I can't see it working to be honest!