Where the Wild Things Are

[barbarianoftheuniverse]

I have an eight month old Border Collie called Meg. She is far from perfect (and so am I).
Today she has been about 60/40 good. The 40 included chewing up my camera memory card which DH is sure he put safely on the mantelpiece. Every time I look down at this screen she takes a quick munch of the coffee table with her eyes on mine. This despite a 2 hour walk which included much in and out of streams.

It just scares me as there is no game he likes more than being a hyped up maniac and that is not helpful! He is like a tiny boy child, capable of focus for the teeniest amount of time but preferred mode of fun is careering around with puppy zoomies or romping and wrestling with 2 or 4 legged companions. And yes...I have hit the deck shrieking legs in the air to get his attention but again, he can be a tough crowd! Ball is fantastic fun...at home only. Completely ignores it outside. Even on his own. Same with tuggie, best thing ever at home...no interest at all even on our own when out.

Damn terriers and their independant personalities. You know how you see spaniel and collie owners with a high energy dog twitching but utterly focussed on them? I can behave like that owner on speed, pockets overflowing with treats and squeakies, leaping around, animated and he just looks mildly amused at me with one eye over my shoulder to see what the next adventure is.

He is great at learning daft clicker tricks at home and picks things up so quickly but he is two different dogs.
We got so far through total recall book before he decided I was just a twitnd that was before

Post went wrong there! He just decided I was a twit with a whistle and not worth getting up for. It was as soon as you had to drop high value treats (hot chicken!) I did it letter for letter too . Too self aware for his own good!

Oh pip NEEDS that!

I can imagine what he's like fan and totally get that it's a massive uphill struggle. Some of it will be immaturity, Oldgirl was a nightmare for the first couple of years, she had zero recall and pulled like a train, but did calm down eventually and ended up as a fantastic companion. I used to cringe out and about, because she looked exactly like those highly attentive, super motivated Border Collies, but behaved like a teenage hooligan.

Essentially, what you are trying to achieve is counter conditioning him into automatically reacting to your cue, as you have made it soooo exciting at home in the house, then garden etc. So he wouldn't stop and think - "Oh yeah, but Mum only has that toy - whereas those are OTHER DOGS Whoopee!" The response would be a conditioned one, where he comes back to you without thinking and for that most of the groundwork is done at home in the house, then garden, then you'd longline him while gradually building up his response outside. If he fails at any point you'd go back a few steps and really ramp up that stage before moving on again. Tiny footsteps.

It is a huge undertaking and it really depends how much of a problem he is to you out on walks as to whether you feel you want/need to do it.

With the Total Recall, if he didn't respond when you dropped the high value treats, he wasn't ready to move on. Each stage can take massively different lengths of time to move on from, depending on dog/breed/personality.

Have added the Moose to my wishlist and will get it when dh isn't looking!

you had to have it!

He is improving gradually so we will keep trying. to admit that if I am honest we have settled into a routine of management really. It just feels like such a mountain to climb from here it is hard to keep faith!

He is good onlead and when he gets excited by other dogs onlead I can get him to watch me and sit easily. It just offlead. I just get envious in my local park (5mins away but a spot that attracts alot of out of area visitorsso very busy when I see dogs having fun off lead. He is perfect in every other way and is so even tempered and fun I can forgive him. It just means I have to work hard to not let him be a nuisance to others because don't misunderstand me, I don't allow him to just have his 'fun' at anyone elses expense. We end up driving miles and micro managing off lead and meeting people we know for play.

I think most/many of us have challenges with our dogs that we choose management for, over incessant hours of repetitive training that takes months to make even a tiny improvement.

It's not like we've all got top notch working dogs that have to be immediate in every response. Ultimately, they're part of our families and lets' face it, there are things we could probably change about our dhs and dcs, given the right amount of time and effort - but sometimes life's just too short and you'd rather just enjoy them - warts and all and get on with your life, iyswim.

I didn't know that was the definition of a Lurcher Moose. We used to say he was our Heinz 57 dog - he had a collie head and a whippet body and was adorable but never off lead as he had no recall.

Minty was great today apparently and the treat bag was emptied so an improvement all round. I've noticed some really wild behaviour with one particular dog owned by a friend of mine so I've decided not to walk with them tomorrow so I can have a solo walk and sort of assess minty for myself.

Mint, "never off lead as he had no recall" - yup that'll be a Lurcher!

Glad Minty's walk went well today.

Did you have a good spa day?

We could never let our collie lurcher cross of either (she was a stray until 2yo) lined I always blamed myself for never getting recall right. She became a bit better as she got older..
Then she went deaf
I have a collie too. I am just sick of people with the same age or older dogs telling m e what to do (she is 20 months)as they think I am not training her well enough, just because she is a normal collie (one and opinion)

I am sick of this kindle
Decifer my post if you can

It's not uncommon for some Lurchers to only ever get let off in secure, fenced fields. Plenty of Greyhound and Lurcher owners rent fields by the hour so their dogs can have off lead romps. Unfortunately there are none around where we live.

Owllady, I know what you mean, everyone seems to have an opinion on how you should/shouldn't be training your dog - even those that don't have and have never had dogs of their own.

I have just developed 'the glaze' followed by smile and nod and they do exactly what I was going to do anyway - same with dcs, everyone else thinks they know best and that they have the right to tell you so.

My neighbour is the worst, she keeps telling me I am making mistakes
And lectures me and she is very blunt
I m sure she doesn't mean it. She is eastern European and I think some of it is lost in translation but she really makes me feel shit
I have always had collies. This one, I have not trained like a race, we are having a meander I think. But I am letting her grow. The behavioural stuff is fine. She loves the house, garden, walk a, people, dogs. We have a bit of a herding issue but I know how to deal with it
And I just want to say to people, bugger off tbh

Oh Moose I so wish I'd known that 30 years ago! I tried really hard to have our dog be allowed some freedom and each time the lead came off, he ran chasing something or just running for fun. My mum had to drive round and search for him as he'd properly run off. When he got home, which he always did, I used to tell him off and be so cross with him. I feel so bad now, I loved him so much in that totally over the top teenage girl way! Bless him, he came to us at 2yrs and I was obviously out my depth in terms of training.

Owllady - by the sounds of it, not your lack of training but just nature of the dog.

Spa day lovely thanks. Super warm and I came home to boys steaming kitchen floor, dog tired & happy and tea cooked!

Really useful info on dog size thanks Moose.

Sounds like you have all had a great day Mint

Mint - he was loved and he knew it, that was the most important thing. Don't beat yourself up about it. Honestly some of the mistakes I made with my first dog would have your hair standing on end!

Glad you've had a lovely day and didn't come home to chaos. Dh has obviously earned some brownie points back!

Eek, just re-read my post about weight. Lose not loose. Ribs not ribcages. In my defence I am make far worse mistakes when I'm speaking. Poor dd keeps asking me why I said something - I swear emphatically that I didn't, until dh says "erm ... yes you did" and it's always something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Good job I'm not an overtly social being, as I'd be getting a lot of funny looks in the playground while my neuro problems are flaring up!

It must be really tough having neuro problems so don't be silly about your post. It made perfect sense and little mistakes can just be explained away as typos! The information was useful and reassuring.

Do you feel up to walking yet Moose? Are you able to train from the sofa or train in the garden?

Yes, that dog was certainly loved! This one is too in a different way. I think I'll always have a dog in my life from now on, but I suspect the breed might change!

Not up to walking far, unfortunately, can only manage short trips to the dreaded local park. Dh has been taking them out separately though, which is better for them both and means they both get some individual attention and a chance to run off-lead without turning into complete Lurcher loons. At least it's not dark when he gets home now, so they can have a decent walk with him.

Dh is away for two days this week though and am not quite sure how we're going to cope with that. I tend to overdo things at the start of the week and am useless by Wed/Thurs, then crawl through Friday and have to rest all weekend. I know how to pace myself, but there's always just too much to get done/

I am feeling a bit brighter in myself though, so am able to train and play with them from my perch and we've been doing lots of taping treats into various boxes etc. The garden is still a horrible quagmire, so I'm avoiding it apart from poo picking or gong farming as my dh calls it - we have Horrible Histories to thank for that little gem.

It's really interesting reading how all your dogs are getting on with their training. We are a bit behind - Angus does a good recall at home but when there are other dogs he can be a bit reluctant. Does come after a bit but will run back to the other dog sometimes. He is HIGHLY food motivated though which is really good. Does a great walk to heel on lead and off gazing lovingly at me (sorry - that should read treatbag!) DH is the same as Mint's with training - wouldn't think of taking / using treats and thinks if he yells "COME" in an angry voice that Angus will come running..
You've got me panicking about boarding costs - Angus is booked in with our dog walker (who he knows well and loves him) for 3 weeks in June...I didn't even ask the price when I booked it. (mind you - we have no option. Dog walker loves him and he loves her and we wouldn't want him to go to kennels)

I don't get the 'gong farming' Moose - am I just slow or is it an in joke!?

I also avoid our garden for same reasons! Is it time to call in dog walkers for help this week Moose? Or just use a trial walk as a bit of a break for you while DH is away?

Hi Haggis, lovely to hear from you! I hope your DH doesn't need the sort of shock mine got this weekend to change his view of dog training - dog running free across a road is not good control. I really think DH is 'getting it' - he's come in from work and bent down to do a proper hello to minty, proper as in chatting & rubbing and giving really focused attention for several minutes at Mintys height so all paws stayed on ground. Wonderful! Usually he says quick hello then gets annoyed because minty leaps up to him for his cuddle and he's tall so minty seems to fly up off the ground trying to get close!!

Don't worry about the cost haggis - I'd pay a lot for someone to give that type of care!

just got back from vet - he thinks that Fitz's immune system has been slightly suppressed by the anaesthetic and has let an infection which he was keeping under control pre-op get the upper hand

he's got a temp and very sore bottom (did not like having his temp taken at all :() - he's on boiled chicken and rice plus pro-biotic paste for 3 days and the vet wants to see him again on Friday - if he's no better we'll send off a stool sample

vet thinks his eyes will clear up as soon as his gut gets better

on the plus side his wound is healing up really nicely

No Mint, Gong Farming is from Horrible Histories. Ds2 is obsessed with that programme. Apparently the people that used to go and pick up all the poo that was used for tanning leather were called Gong Farmers - hence dh using that term when he sallies forth to clean up the lawn. In the summer we go out and clean it up every time they go, but with the weather as it has been, we've tended not to, so dh has to go and pick it all up in one go, iyswim.

I just can't bring myself to book the dog-walkers. I can't let go of the worry about someone else handling them. I will just have to take them out myself and maybe sit on a bench, let them off one at a time and chuck a ball for them or something.

Glad your dh has taken his wake-up call seriously.

Hi haggis good to hear Angus is well. Recall sounds pretty normal for a pup to be honest. The world is just too exciting when they're this age.

Basil, poor Fitz. Hope the probiotics sort out his digestive problems and he's able to fight the infection off quickly.

Glad I took him to the vet yesterday as poo now completely liquid - obv not right! I have to collect a stool sample but it's quite tricky when there's nothing solid to get hold of (not envy ...)

Moose - if you really can't bear the idea of a Dogwalker then don't feel you 'have' to have one - however it might make a big difference to your life on a short-term basis and help your recovery

I felt awful about sending Fitz to daycare when my mum was so ill but knowing that he was safe and was very happy when I couldn't be there to look after him was invaluable

We're keeping daycare going one day a week so that he's completely familiar with the set-up when we go on holiday at Easter

Sorry to hear Fitz is worse this morning Basil. Poor lad. Hope the vets get to the bottom of it quickly.

Re dogwalking, the thing is, I think I should hire a dogwalker for the dogs' sake. They are getting walked, but nowhere near as much, particularly in terms of off-lead, as they're used to and I don't think that's fair on them. I keep living in hope this is going to be a short relapse and normal service will be resumed.

Poor Fitz - hope he feels better soon. Re daycare / dogwalking - although Angus was already going to daycare a couple of days a week so I could go to work, it was a lifeline when I broke my ankle as otherwise don't know how we would have coped - and he was used to going so was happy to up the days (she really is lovely and helped with a bit of training when I couldn't). It is a bit like sending dc to nursery though - you know they're happy but it's weird them doing stuff without you.
dh really doesn't get training I don't think - he greets Angus by encouraging him to jump up for a cuddle, fed him at the table now wonders why the dog's such a scrounge...he keeps saying that last dog wasn't like that - forgetting all the food that got stolen etc before last dog grew up.