Not good dog owners

[stardusty5]

My DP had just got a new Sharpei/Staffy when I first met him. The dog is now just over 1 year and i am really concerned about him.

He has terrible separation anxiety which is very upsetting for us both. This behaviour can at times be very destructive, but at other times means that he just cries and shakes when he knows we are going out. It has affected how often we socialise as a couple because we feel it's not worth putting him through the stress. It also means that he sleeps in our room now instead of the kitchen, as his crying and scratching at the door was unbearable and would go on for hours.

Secondly, he is not good on the lead- he really pulls, and i am too frightened to let him off the lead when there are others around as he tends to jump and say hello to them.

We both work full time, and i am of te opinion that we are not a good enough home for him. DP has not really trained him, and is only now promising to take him to a proper class, at my insistence.

While i love him, and think he is very cute, i can't help but think that we have made him into a very difficult and troubled dog. We are hoping to TTC soon and these stories of dog attacks terrify me.

I guess i wish that i had met DP before he got the dog. It would be heartbreaking to get rid of him but I don't think an empty house is suitable for a dog.

Hiding the thread too, it feels like some kind of horrendous point scoring exercise in how to train your dog, especially the posts this afternoon.

Helpful -not...

O dear. I can see that a variety of perspectives are not welcomed by some.

I am not simply an 'interrupter'. My dogs rarely need telling 'no'. I was simply pointing out that when I use the word 'no' they understand and I remain baffled that this is considered improper in some dog training circles.

Sorry op if I have derailed your thread. I hope you have found all perspectives useful.

I love my dogs, enjoy my time with them and they are generally well behaved and a pleasure to be around.

I simply point out that to achieve this state it is not inevitable that you have to spend many years in training... no matter what the professional dog trainers might tell you.

I hope things work out for you and your dog.

OP sounds like you have made good progress, hope it all works out for you and that you enjoy your dog more, but don't beat yourself up if you need to take the option of letting him stay permanently at your DP's relatives.

I have had lots of dogs of varying breeds and sizes, the favourite to train was the Border Collie. Funnily enough Numpty we are on our second Lhasa, and I would say both are/were extremely intelligent but overwhelmingly stubborn! Both seem to have been inflicted with what we call "walk-about syndrome" where they just decide to bumble off and then expect you to come and find/retreive them. The current one is actually royalty (in her head anway!).

Oh yes, Spero why do they decide that it is a good idea to square up to that huge dog that could eat me whole and use my bones for a toothpick??!! Our view is that a small dog is merely a big dog and personality squashed into a small body and they just forget the dimensional differences.

No doubt my comments will be eviscerated.

It is really odd - people cross the road to avoid my staffy but it is the chihuahua who is aggressive!

My first puppy training session with him was an absolute nightmare as he barked continuously and everyone tried to ignore him.

But by the end he was ok - he will never be as placid as my staffy but patience and perseverance has made a big difference.

But it has been very interesting for me to see just how different the different breeds are. I treat them in the same way and the chihuaua has been much more hard work, because he is so feisty.

emo. fortunately my lhasa is really good at not wandering off - her biggest issue initially off lead was thinking she could keep up with the super fit and fast lab but she quickly learnt hmm actually i think i'll take this short cut and save my tiny legs

she's also had to learn that if you giddily follow the long legged dog ahead of you into the long grass and she speeds out of your range of vision you are fucked! lol you can almost hear her thought process of where am i? where did they go? christ i can't see a thing! i have to call loudly to her because her chances of seeing are slim once she's ploughed into a field of thigh high grass.

i'm not convinced she's stubborn though that's the answer i usually get about their trainability and stuff - it's more like she has a really short attention span like, yes, yes, you want to please you, you want me to - ooh a bird! what was i doing? she seems dizzy more than stubborn and it seems to be tempering with age and that window of able to focus on me and what we're doing is extending.

spero you've put some backs at some at some point! it all seems to be coming at you on here.

I know, I am not quite sure what I have done to attract so much rage!

odd that, because I would have thought if you were sure and happy with your own position, you wouldn't feel the need to flounce off threads if people disagree with you.

but I suppose if you have spent many years and thousands of pounds on all thus 'essential' training, you might find my views a bit annoying...

Spero, agree with you about people avoiding the "bigger" dog when in actual fact it is the small one you should be keeping your eye on!!

Ah Numpty, with this Lhasa we call it her "royalty complex", the looks I get when I ask her not to go in the fence are awesome, and then I am completely ignored and out it comes when it is ready covered in sticky, spiky things. I take it you know of the Lhasa's original purpose, I keep telling mine "you are a silk cushion dog, you are not supposed to be digging and rummaging", but to no avail! Does yours smile? Our first one was a smiler, but this one is definite smirker!

Spero, we haven't spent thousands on training dogs either and have managed to have several dogs of all shapes, breeds and sizes perfectly well trained and behaved - odd that isn't it?

Funny isn't it how without a doubt, the 'nastiest' threads I have ever been on, much nastier than any stuff about care proceedings etc is ALWAYS the dog threads.

Whilst I am glad there are people who feel so passionately about their dogs it is a shame that I get a distinct feeling that there just isn't room for any debate or discussion with some.

There are fashions and fads with dog training, just as there are with any walk of life. Some will work for you and your dog, some won't.

My first puppy training, two years ago now, was VERY big on this ridiculous 'dominance theory' - I was told I wasn't allowed to let my dog in the house before me, I had to eat my breakfast before her etc, etc. Because if I didn't she would turn into an alpha wolf and try to take over the pack.

My instinct was that this was crap - and wouldn't you know it, my instinct is now mainstream. I think you have to trust yourself and your dog and work out what is best for both of you.

If you enjoy training your dog, that's great. But don't have a pop at me or others when we point out that we have happy, well adjusted dogs without having spent years in training. We 'train' our dogs at home in the course of a normal day, by being consistent and kind to them.

i can't see if she's smiling or smirking for hair but then again her whole body smilies itms. she is giddily, ecstatically happy in her whole physical expression.

yes she digs, wades in mud and delights in getting filthy which is a royal pita. she will giddily throw herself into a pack of big dogs running and get bowled other by a big bouncy one and just shake it off and plough back in. despite the pretty looks they are really hardy little things.

i am told that lhasas are loyal and loving to their own people but standoffish with strangers - someone failed to tell kitsi this who is everyone's best friend.

she's a really good alarm dog though - the lab wouldn't bark if someone was trying to break in the door with a pick axe and only barks from joy at seeing people she loves or sheer excitement. the lhasa barks at strange noises and is excellent at seeming to know the difference between 'usual' allowed sounds and something different. so she's not a yappy dog - doesn't bark at the postman or the neighbours being out in their garden or dogs being out (unlike the yappy bloody scotties next door) but only literally only reacts to unusual, that shouldn't be there, sounds. so when she alerts i tend to pay attention.

sorry thread hijack into lhasa appreciation society here

i suppose actually that where lhasas were bred as alarm dogs and companions and so needed to bark when needed labradors as gun dogs shouldn't bark really and should be calm, quiet and await commands so they are both being who they're meant to be itms. dogs are fascinating. both are fantastic natural ratters - the lab once smelt out a vermin nest in the fields and the lhasa joined her and joyously started digging and grabbing and throwing them up in the air - you can see why they used to be categorised as terriers.

I am not quite sure what I have done to attract so much rage!

It's not rage, it's annoyance and I think I tried to explain but here goes again and perhaps this time you could stop for a few minutes and consider the possibility that you are behaving badly.

You go onto threads where people have problems with their dogs and give very confidently worded advice to the effect that dogs are easy and owners don't need to do much. You have at times said that dogs don't really need to be walked, that owners can leave dogs at home all day long with no problems (no one said that dog owners can't go to the cinema, what was said on that thread is that if you are out of the house 8.30-5.30 for a full time job you need to stay in during the evenings otherwise it is not fair having a dog) and that owners don't need support in training but can do it all themselves with very little effort.

All this is very naive and risks misleading either people who are thinking of getting dogs or people who are having trouble with their dogs. Having a problem dog and having to consider rehoming is a heart-breaking, devastating situation and it is irresponsible to post in a way that dismisses the common suggestions made to avoid such a situation, e.g. assume your dog needs time, attention and exercise, get help with training and socialisation, get professional help with serious behavioural issues.

That is why you put up the backs of people who have spent their lives helping others with their dogs (voluntarily may I add, I somehow fail to have made the millions from assisting dog training classes that some people on this thread assume training costs).

Booboo - I too am annoyed, as I seem to be constantly misrepresented and misquoted.

Please do show me where I have said that ALL dogs are easy that ALL training is rubbish.

You won't be able to because of course I never did.

What I and numpty (and quite a few others) come on these threads to say is that with MOST dogs MOST of the time it is not rocket science. You need clear consistent boundaries, lots of praise for good behaviour.

I challenge you to find one 'irresponsible' thing I have said on this thread - or indeed any other.

All I do is disagree with frankly ridiculous assertions that ALL dogs need 'years' of training.

The op's dog has BIG problems - but they appear to be problems arising out of his mistreatment and hopefully they are fixable, but will need work particularly on separation anxiety.

But if you put in good techniques at the beginning, this should never happen. My dogs DONT have separation anxiety precisely because I have never been precious about leaving them and they know I am always coming back.

sorry, re-reading, which is perhaps foolish as I am already annoyed but you say I say dogs don't need to be walked!!!

WHERE ON EARTH do you get this crap???

Of course dogs need exercise. My dogs go out minimum twice a day for minimum half an hour each time. Whenever I can we do something longer, for e.g. I will ride my bike and both dogs will run with me, the chihauau especially loves that.

If it is raining neither of them want to go out so occasionally we have the odd day where they stay in as the weather has been so bad lately.

You see this is what really winds me up. You say this appalling awful things and attribute them to me.

It is really dishonest and a very nasty form of bullying.

I would be really grateful if you could just stop it. By all means, if we can have a civil form of disagreement and maybe reach consensus on some issues, that would be great. But I can't debate with people who seem to have some agenda to be dishonest.

I am sorry you feel bullied that was not my intention.

Quite a few people read your posts the way I have (as has been mentioned to you in other threads) and perhaps this should lead you to reconsider how you present your ideas.

Your claim that I am purposefully dishonest seems exaggerated and unsupported.

Sorry, but unless you can show me exactly WHERE I said all these appalling things, I have to assume you are deliberately misrepresenting me and this is dishonest.

If I present my thoughts and opinions in an 'unhelpful' way then people are at perfect liberty to ignore me.

What isn't helpful are attempts to portray me as some lunatic who should be investigated by the RSPCA.

I will carry on posting and giving MY perspectives on what I think about dogs and their training, based on my experiences. If you disagree, fine. But please disagree with what I actually said, not what you think it would be funny to pretend I said.

I don't want to derail the op's thread anymore. She says she has found all perspectives helpful - she may be being diplomatic! but that is better way of saying ' I don't agree with you and by the way you say dogs never need walking'.

agreed - you are saying she said things that she hasn't said.

of course that is dishonest and is a deliberate means of trying to make her sound bad and misrepresent her to other readers.

if she did say those things then show where as she asks or if it turns out she didn't say them and you have unintentionally misrepresented her then apologise for that mistake otherwise yes of course readers will assume you are being deliberately dishonest.

Thanks numpty, ok I really must stop now as my blood pressure can't take much more but my eyes originally slid over this little gem where it is asserted that I said

that owners can leave dogs at home all day long with no problems

this just beggars belief. Just read what I have said in this thread!

Of course leaving a dog at home all day long alone will cause MASSIVE problems. I explicitly say this and I explicitly recommend that the op rehome her dog if she can't get day times sorted out. I suggest dog walkers or dog day care.

gosh, you really must hate what I say to attempt to do such a hatchet job eh? Luckily for me you do it so clumsily I don't think anyone is going to get misled.

But it does of course piss me off and upset me because I would hate to think that my dogs were being treated in the way you alleged I treat them...

NumpltyNameChange sorry I don't have time to quote Spero's numerous advice in the doghouse but if you use the search function you can see for yourself. As you can see in this thread (18:18:03) and in a very recent thread (sorry can't remember which one but someone else recently picked her up on it) I am not the only one who interprets Spero's posts this way.

Funny that. You have time to write it all down at length on here.

If anyone really has nothing else better to do, by all means search what I have to say. I stand by it all.

What a peculiar bunch some dog lovers are.

hmm right so i have to go with the dishonest and deliberately misleading then. you know if you slander someone saying 'you've said this that and the other' it's kind of standard to back that up when asked to. not to say oh use the search function to find it.

you've proved yourself to be rather disengenuous (sp sorry) i'm afraid.

Hmm Spero, I've seen your advice re dogs and don't recognise any of the stuff Boo attributes to you. I find your advice on all the various threads on MN to be measured and reasonable.

I think some people just pick on something, misinterpret it to their own understanding and then, like a dog with a bone, just keep on and on and on, whenever you post on a board, up they pop with their "you said xyz yada, yada.." There was a thread recently about lack of comprehension of OP's and other posts and it does seem quite common across all the boards of MN, and under no circumstances will the poster who has misinterpreted or misunderstood you ever back down no matter how often you or other people point out how wrong/mistaken they are.

Numpty, back to the Lhasa appreciation society (I love that!), our first Lhasa sounds very much like yours, everybody and everything was her friend, no problem with people, other dogs, cats, just assumed everyone would find her as adorable as she believed herself to be! She was a great fitter-in. Our current one fits the breed characteristic descriptions to a "T", "chary/wary" with strangers, very few people are allowed into her exclusive social circle, very guardy, if she barks we know to go and check it out. The smiling/smirking are very difficult to describe, but they definitely do it!! I'll have to see if I can find picture evidence somewhere and share it with you.

would love to see a smiling photo.

agree on the dog with bone business. i think it's also true that people can get religious about their 'thing' whether it's a style of parenting, dog training, a religion itself or a political standpoint and be hugely defensive of anyone they see as challenging it's validity or saying there are other ways that work too.

Thanks numpty and echo - I agree also about people getting very wedded to their own style of doing something and defending it very fiercely - even to the point of making up stuff about the people they disagree with!

I think it is linked to the parallels between having dogs and having children: we love them and often feel guilty we aren't doing enough/the right thing/other people do it better etc,etc.

So there is a risk we are over defensive if we think someone is critical of our choices.

Or something. But then again, some people could just be spoiling for a fight. Who knows!