Not good dog owners

[stardusty5]

My DP had just got a new Sharpei/Staffy when I first met him. The dog is now just over 1 year and i am really concerned about him.

He has terrible separation anxiety which is very upsetting for us both. This behaviour can at times be very destructive, but at other times means that he just cries and shakes when he knows we are going out. It has affected how often we socialise as a couple because we feel it's not worth putting him through the stress. It also means that he sleeps in our room now instead of the kitchen, as his crying and scratching at the door was unbearable and would go on for hours.

Secondly, he is not good on the lead- he really pulls, and i am too frightened to let him off the lead when there are others around as he tends to jump and say hello to them.

We both work full time, and i am of te opinion that we are not a good enough home for him. DP has not really trained him, and is only now promising to take him to a proper class, at my insistence.

While i love him, and think he is very cute, i can't help but think that we have made him into a very difficult and troubled dog. We are hoping to TTC soon and these stories of dog attacks terrify me.

I guess i wish that i had met DP before he got the dog. It would be heartbreaking to get rid of him but I don't think an empty house is suitable for a dog.

OP, yes you need to be wary with dog training classes. I took my first dog to classes in a village hall. Very cheap but worse than useless, too many dogs and loads of people milling about. My dog got so stressed it was impossible for him to learn anything, although I was clueless and didn't realise at first. The trainers were all well meaning volunteers and no one was properly qualified.

I have two dogs thanks.

One is 2 and a half.

the other is 8 months.

I do wish you would check your facts before making lofty pronouncements.

I have had both dogs since they were puppies also.

One is a staffy, the other a chihuaua. So I have quite a varied experience!

This constantly trotted out 'wisdom' that they are hard to deal with as 'teenagers' I found to be complete bollocks, certainly with my staffy. She has been fine throughout.

i have 2 dogs also - a 3.5 year old and a nearly 2yo.

the 3.5yo was my first ever dog and she's the one who went three or four times to puppy training.

she has perfect recall thankyou, is very reliable with the commands i find necessary eg. sit, down, stay, leave it, stay close etc. not because i'm lucky or some freakishly superb dog trainer but because dog training is mostly common sense, effort, relationship building and putting in the time and variety of experiences when the dog is young.

no amount of dog training classes are better than an owner who trains in the house every day with commands and treats and enthusiasm, who gets their puppy out in a field and off the lead running with them and learning to find training fun and the praise of returning upon recall rewarding and basically building a bond with the owner. not everything requires a professional or a load of money spending on it and training is basically creating a loving bond where in a dog wants to please you, trusts you and is mentally/emotionally healthy.

i would imagine people who are taking 2 years to get reliable responses to commands and basic recall (coming back when called EVEN with other dogs around, food, etc IS basic recall imo) are either really not suitable to have a dog, are not putting in the time with the dog and building a relationship or the classes are teaching them the wrong way of going about things for that dog - re: my friends dog wasn't treat orientated but the classes she went to had zero other approach for a dog like that.

the teenager thing is imo often simply people feeling the weight of not having really got it right when the dog was younger, or things they got away with a puppy not being gotten away with with an older dog, hence they have to revisit the basics they didn't get down in the first place.

I absolutely agree.

there is a small subset of people who post on these threads who manage to make owning a dog sound utterly joyless and nothing more than a long, arduous trudge through constant training, never being able to to leave dog alone for more than a few minutes etc, etc. o yes and you must NEVER say 'no' to your dog or raise your voice, you must instead 'distract' it with a treat or some such nonsense.

Which I think is so sad, because having a dog has been one of the greatest pleasures of my life - as you say it is about building that bond.

My staffy responds to me because she desperately wants to please me - and thats because I put in the effort establishing our bond, not taking two years to bring her up to 'gold standard' in training classes! The chihuaua is er slightly different - it is amazing how strong willed and feisty such a tiny dog can be, but even he is now showing that he values my good opinion more than he wants to do something naughty and he is coming on very well, albeit he is still not as 'easy' as my staffy.

I think part of the problem is people like the op's DP. They love the idea of a dog, they love the actual dog but what they don't love or understand is the notion that owning a dog is a constant effort - it shouldn't be joyless or constant 'hard work' but it must be consistent.

I think the parallels between dogs and children are very close. Both require warm but authoritative 'parenting' with clear boundaries, consistently applied. And that is an 'every day' thing. You wouldn't leave a toddler alone in the house all day and expect to have a happy well balanced child; exactly the same applies to a dog.

Ah OK Spero that makes it allright then, I take it all back. You should write a book on dog training, followed by a DVD and a world tour.

NumptyNameChange I never said that it is sufficient to simply go to dog training classes and there is no need to do anything else. Of course owners have to put in the hours at home. But equaly doing it by yourself leads you to miss out on things. For most people dog training classes are an education for themselves and how to train a dog, they learn things like targeting and shaping. They also learn about techniques to deal with minor problems like NILIF, Time Out and BAT. If you have intuitevely arrived at all this by yourself then what can I say you are exceptional. You still can't infer from this one case of exceptional dog training that everyone else will be like you. The other reason that even experienced dog trainers take their own dogs to training classes is that learning in an environment with other dogs (major distraction) cannot easily be replicated at home - and as anyone who has trained dogs knows, learning one thing in one place/situation is not the same as doing the same thing in another place/situation. For a nice test of this lie down and ask your dog to sit - I'd be interested to hear what happens. It's an exercise I've done in advanced classes (e.g. distance control, out of sight sit/stays) and 90% of the dogs still fail to sit.

Spero who said that the two years are arduous and joyless? If you find training your dog arduous and joyless that reflects your experience, not the value of training. Many people continue with dog training purely for fun through-out the dog's life doing fun obedience, fun agility, clicker competitions for fun, dancing, etc.

The reason you should not use the word 'no' as a command is that it is in common usage and it is easy to disensitise your dog to it. It is recommended you use a made up word like "ah uh" or something less common like "stop". Aside from that trainers do teach a general stop it command as well as specific commands to stop things like "leave it" and "drop it".

You seem to have rather set (and wrong surprise surprise) ideas about what is involved in training for someone who has never done any! So not only can you train a dog with no knowledge and no assistance but you can also tell that everyone else has got it wrong with no understanding of what they do.

Ok, we will just have to agree to differ. Numpty and I have just been incredibly, freakishly lucky to have such remarkably easy dogs.

Btw I have found 'no!' To be very effective with both dogs and child. Again, must be just some weird thing that no one else could replicate.

yes spero we two, and the zillions of dog owners who've gotten along fine in the past without shelling out hundreds and hundreds of pounds keeping dog trainers in business for two years, must just be exceptionally gifted.

btw my second dog is lhasa and like you i've found it took longer to get to that point of them actually wanting to please you or getting what it is that pleases you. i actually despaired of her at one stage but she's now nearly two and everything seems to be falling into place at last. it's almost like her capacity for self control took longer to develop than my labs.

to be fair though if you look up breeds by intelligence she's way, way, way lower on the list than the labrador so no big surprise there and i think it's also easy to be complacent with your second dog and they don't get as much one on one time as the first.

All I am trying to say is NOT that I know everything about dogs and training etc because obviously I don't.

But I am an experienced dog owner who also likes to read and discuss things and therefore my experience informs my view that MOST dogs MOST of the time will respond to pretty basic training and consistent boundaries and you really don't need to be signing up for years of making dog trainers rich.

The 'problem' dogs I meet when out and. about do seem to be allowed to do what they want with ineffectual or no control from owners. That is NOT the dogs problem.

Anyway I hope you get it sorted op. I hope numpty and I can give a useful perspective despite the lack of gold stars from crufts. I really don't think our experiences are that unusual.

A lot of the people that post on here Spero have taken on rescue dogs with significant issues and are working through those issues. Perhaps even some of the 'problem' dogs that you meet might have had difficult backgrounds? We walk with a GSD owner who has a bitch that barks contstantly, I mean constantly! Folk tend to walk past and scowl etc but the poor dog lived in a yard for the first year of her life, the world is a scary place.

Personally, I would be doing loads more with that dog to counter conditioner her. I have never done that before and would be 'in at the deep end', but I have learnt enough on here to give it a go.

I have a 16 month old Springer and a puppy, both from reputable breeders and who have been and are being well socialised. So it's been pretty easy to train them both (bit manic at present with the puppy ) and I have started with a blank canvas. I don't know obviously where your dogs came from, but it does make it easier.

I just wanted to say that it's not always this way really.

And no, training our oldest dog to Gold standard wasn't a requirement, but he enjoys it, we enjoy it, and it gave us some structure etc. I fully intend to do some agility or some such with him too, for pure enjoyment, but wanted to get the basics right. he was our first dog so I didn't have a clue!

It was also interesting to have a different perspective to training too. yes, probably the vast majority of dogs do fine with loving and committed owners willing to put the time and energy in, but there's a lot of posts on here that suggest a lack of knowledge at the very least, which has caused issues.

Good luck OP

I second the gentle leader head collar - works brilliantly!

The people I 'judge' don't appear to be people working through difficult issues with rescue dogs - those generally keep a distance and have dogs on leads/muzzles etc.

But I see a lot of tiny women being pulled over by huge bouncing Labrador types that they can't control - I make sexist assumption that these have been purchased by husbands who then dump all looking after tasks on wives...

Of course there are lots of very knowledgeable people on these threads who give invaluable advice. But there are also quite a few people who come on these threads and advocate some ludicrously high standards of dog training and rearing which I think in vast majority of cases are simply unsustainable and unnecessary.

There was a thread not so long ago when someone had given up going to the cinema now they had a dog! That really annoys me, so too does constantly being told I don't know what I am talking about because I haven't lived with a pack of Siberian wolves for a few years...

i might have honorary gold stars from crufts if they get word that i trained a dog without 2 years of training classes. apparently it's a massive, freakish achievement.

Hah! Get in line! I want a massive trophy for making my dogs understand the highly complex and ambiguous command of 'no! Stop it you little sod!'

The chihuahua used to drag his bone all the way up to my bedroom but now he will stop half way up stairs, drop bone and pretend he's not really there. Result!

And I managed that all by myself

the lhasa has progressed from jaws of doom guarding of anything she deems treasure and growling if anyone comes within a metre to letting me stroke her head and sit next to her with a bone and if i really fucking must, with some serious making clear she'd rather not, she'll give it to me. funnily enough i just thought about the issue logically and worked out a way of gradually acclimatising her and gaining trust and respect. mensa may be in contact soon.

little dogs are more challenging aren't they? i've read lots of theories as to why including apparently we let them get away with more but none of them seem to really answer it for me.

it may be as simple as having been bred for different purposes than total obedience and tuning into the desires of humans. think lots of them were bred for vermin control which is all about quick fast responses and nothing getting in the way of the kill maybe. who knows. my son is into dogs at the minute so we're watching and reading lots on them. maybe i'll find out.

funnily enough i had a south african paediatrician (sp sorry) who said, 'don't worry, they're just like puppies' when ds was a tiny baby. obviously he hadn't been trained in understanding just how difficult puppies are and how you need two years of professional, paid for classes to learn to deal with them

What a dangerous idiot. It takes years of specialist training before I was even allowed in the puppy food aisle at Pets at Home.

If you find out anything interesting about WHY little dogs apparently believe they are the size of bears and could take on that boxer, o yes, I would be very interested.

Apparently chihuahuas are a very ancient breed but surely they wouldn't have been bred originally as a toy dog?

Enjoying reading the different perspectives here! After some research- i have discovered that the KC group is actually massively cheaper than the community centre one DP had in mind. Hooray!

So DP is off to observe that tonight with a view to starting in their new intake next month. We're going to do the basic beginner class and then hopefully work on getting us more confident.

The brother has also agreed to take him on tuesday and thursday next week.

Spero you do talk bollocks and also take over some threads with such a narrow view Boo is talking such sense but you can see there is no point in her posting as you just want to pick a fight.

It does not bother me a bit but other readers who do not know your history have to wade through your personal rants rather than see sensible knowledgable posts eg Booboostoo

Spero - congratulations on being able to interrupt your dogs' behaviour with "no" or similar.

You're right. That's pretty easy to do.

Unfortunately there are some behaviours that you don't want to happen at all - interrupting those would be classed as too little too late.

An interrupt or is a handy thing at times; but the reason lots of trainers aren't that impressed by teaching "no" is because it has limited uses. It's far better to teach the dog what you want it to do instead.

An interrupter.