Mumsnet campaign - child safety around dogs?

[DeathByLaundry]

I'd reported a post to MNHQ because of all the useful links on child safety, agreeing that it would be useful as a sticky. Catherine replied explaining they couldn't because of such a huge number of requests for similar.

However, I think in a broader sense MN could do fantastic work on this issue given its demographic. In my dreams this would be a pairing with Victoria Stilwell but someone less famous would absolutely do - Daniel Mills perhaps? A bit of a campaign, some genuinely lifesaving advice well delivered, which could improve the safety of children and the welfare of dogs in one fell swoop.

Whaddya think? :)

I think it's an excellent idea, however I'd worry that you'd only get dog owners and a select few non dog owners interested.

Going on some of threads on here, a scary amount of the none dog owning public believe our dogs should not be out in public at all if there is a tiny chance that they might snap or growl if their PFB abuses them. In other words, we take responsibility for the safety of their child when we are out with our dogs.

I have very small, odd looking dog who has looked like a puppy for the last 4 years. The amount of parents who watch from afar (or sometimes don't watch) while their toddler rushes over and starts man handling her is terrifying. Luckily for them she'd rather chew off her own tail than snap at the child pulling it.

One of my FB friends has been posting a few Youtube links in the last few days, that are very difficult to watch involving children and dogs and utter stupidity on the parent's part Rotty guarding baby and And then people wonder why dogs sometimes bite

I've seen those Dooin. Spine chilling.

A colleague and I both feel particularly strongly about this. We see parents allowing their children to abuse and manhandle dogs frequently, and when challenged their answer is always "oh he's great though, he let's them do anything". I've no hesitation in telling them that he shouldn't be expected to let them do anything, and that all dogs are not that patient, and that their children should learn to respect all dogs.

I just feel that a "keep your child safe around dogs" campaign might attract interest from both those who already have dogs and also from those who fear them. After all, fear of unprovoked attacks is a big driving factor for the anti-dog movement.

Something like the Liam Perk "be a tree" stuff perhaps.

The Liam Perk stuff is brilliant. Anyone with children should read it, regardless of whether they own a dog. I think the Perk's are amazing and have nothing but respect for them.

Our school had the dog warden visit with a local behaviorist last year to give a talk on dog safety. I wasn't there but dd1 assured me it was "sensible" and dd2 told me when they went to her key stage, she was allowed to stand up and tell them our "rools" because the DW recognised her and asked if we do anything special to help settle in new dogs. Something like that spread out across all school would be great, but I wonder how many parents would go for it?

To me it's a massive issue, I see so many pictures of friend's children and their dogs that they think are "cute" when in actual fact the dog is mightily pissed off and showing an incredible amount of restraint. I often wonder why so few dogs attack, when so many people seem to not understand them at all.

That's exactly it. The facts of the matter are that virtually every dog related injury or death is preventable. If people are scared of dogs then empowering them to "speak dog" gives them some useful means of "defending themselves" for want of a better wording. For those who have dogs in their homes, who question safety issues each time there's a new tragedy, this could give them information in order to assess and minimise risks. And for those who don't think it applies to them, if you could get a high profile dog sleb type it might just catch their attention.

Ds's nursery took part in a research study run by the local university around children and dogs. Iirc it was looking at teaching children how to read dogs behaviour and how to act around dogs. That might be an avenue to explore, I imagine other unis might be doing the same and be interested in teaming up regarding a campaign.

I signed ds up for it as he was incredibly nervy around any dog. I'd lost count of the times we've stood back whilst dog walkers have walked past reassuring him.

I know that SpaceDogs has every intention to come up with a primary school aimed presentation on dog safety and awareness, with the idea that it can be rolled out across as many schools as possible.

I think that is great Lilcamper, and the NCT also provide info via the Dogs Trust. However there is a big problem IMO with the toddler and preschool age, which is a risky period. Arming parents with information could fill this gap.

It's how to get the info out there that is the problem. We all know where to find it but your average dog owner is bombarded with so much conflicting and sometimes dangerous advice that it's not funny.

That's my point. The more we can push good advice into the mainstream media the more chance it has of being seen as the correct advice amid the confusion. The amount of people quoting Cesar Millan in my consulting room is testament to that.

It is not just dog owners. It is also parents who don't have a pet dog and so never teach their kids how to behave around dogs. (Not a dog owner. The safety of my kids round your dogs is my responsibility.)

The media don't help, instead of sensationalising dog attacks they could approach it from a different angle. We have so very many really good and approachable trainers and behaviourists in the UK.

Exactly Wolfie. People seem to feel powerless and threatened by dogs. A campaign to give them understanding and tools to stay safe could benefit them as much as much as it benefits dogs and their owners.

If we could get someone high profile on board along with a vehicle such as Mumsnet then the reach could be huge. There are lots of offshoots such as puppy farming, dominance theory, responsible ownership etc but I think leaving them as sideshows would make a single child safety message clearer and louder.

I have just spoken to the lady that runs SpaceDogs and she is more than willing to help with any campaign if needed.

I do know that Sarah Fisher lives with Anthony Head. Might be a good behaviourist/celebrity team to approach?

This is a brilliant idea. I'm a new big breed puppy owner experience pre DC though and spent a year reading up and educating our DC about dogs before finally choosing and bringing her home.

Crazy thing is that before considering a dog I had never even thought about telling the DC anything more than always ask an owner before touching!

molding this is it, there's an awful lot more (which can be kept simple) but which will be far more effective at keeping people safe than "supervise and ask the owner first".

I didn't know that about Anthony Head!

Any other thoughts?

One of the main things I can think of is to listen to a dog. Far far too many owners punish a dog for growling when they should be thanking them. It is a dog's first line of communicating that they are not happy. Take the growl away and hey will have to resort to a bite.

Exactly. And teach children to ask the owner and the dog before touching it - very easy and effective, especially as many owners are not educated in reading their dog's body language and may give permission despite the dog's discomfort. By teaching children whatsigns look out for in an unhappy dog it is possible to avoid many potentially dangerous interactions.

Never approach a dog that is asleep or eating. Children should wait for a dog to approach them before they attempt to interact.

As someone without a dog but a regular park user, may I ask a question. How can I protect my four year old from dogs who are tearing down the paths off leads and jumping/sniffing at everything/everyone? Tbh it scares the shit out of me half of the time as they could easily just bite. Do you agree with owners that it is my problem because it is a park?! If anyone has helpful hints it would be much appreciated as I grew up without dogs.

www.liamjperkfoundation.org/

The above should help, although they are in the wrong. Dogs shouldn't be allowed to rush up to and jump on people. They only need to cause "fear or alarm" for the law to become interested.

Thanks. It is nice to hear that they are in the wrong. I thought so as it it even says on the park notice board that dogs should be kept on a lead on paths! I will check the link.

I have read and I am going to teach the boys to be a tree! Thanks once again.

Yes, we do the tree and the turn away and fold your arms, I think that was on the "I speak doggy" YouTube video.