New Puppy Mummies Part 2

[SallyBear]

Just thought I'd start the new thread!

Toby (foxy coloured yellow Labrador) is now 13 weeks old. Long, lean and lanky. Still wonderfully tempered and is sleeping through and no longer messing in the house.

Picnic you probably need to do two walks a day. He's probably in need of a stretch if his legs before bed.

You may think this is daft re. the growling but have you thought about taking him to the vet and seeing if he's entirely intact. I'm wondering if the growling is related to pain? Maybe someone coming up to cuddle him jars something and he's now growling to get people to back off and not crowd him. A good animal McTimoney chiropractor would be able to help with that. Also what is his vision like? Just wondering if he's got reduced sight in one eye? He could be unnerved by someone blind siding him? Just chucking ideas in here. GR are supposed to be super lovely and friendly - no wonder you are worried. Has the breeder been any help?

Guide Dogs Association is in Leamington Spa, I wonder if they can point you in the direction of some practical help?

Hi all, quiet night with us and Minty (OES) despite lots of noisy fireworks.

Re: walking - we are doing 1 x 30-40 walk a day as usual thing. When it's been longer i.e. Weekend walk with DH who is keen to do more, so might be an hour but 15-20 of that in cafe, we haven't walked the next day just fine lots of playing sessions in garden.

We tried an evening 10mins round block to distract him from biting, leaping around but it didn't help. Infact I think he was more 'wired' after it than before. He is hyper every evening and we think it's tiredness but he can't switch off. Antlers help as does letting him climb onto sofa next to us!

Our vet advised us to keep with daily 30-40 mins till he is 6 months old, perhaps adding in another 10-15 min walk at night when we thought he was ready. But she said up to 6 months this was enough. She also said from 6-12 months we could increase but he would not be up for really long-out -all-day walks till he was over 12months. Made me wonder how the farmer used to manage with puppies on the farm!

As for training, I probably do 6 sessions of 2-3 mins each every day. Just quick commands & treats whenever I'm passing the clicker/treat box. Also recall every meal time.
One DS plays whenever he can with minty, so several times a day till we rescue him cos it goes bitey very quickly! The other DS - well chilled teenager - doesn't play at all but does training and snuggles on sofa with minty! Think minty likes watching Minecraft on the laptop on DS1s knee!

Neither of my dogs even bothered to lift their heads when the fireworks went off last night, so it seems it was worth listening to endless loops of Firework Simulation CDs after all.

Pip (Lurcher) doesn't get much road, lead-work at the moment, as it's two minutes to our local park, about five to the fields and if we go elsewhere we go in the car. The ground is so soft here (as in totally waterlogged) that he is getting plenty of free running with Lurcherboy and we were told that running on soft ground is ok, but to restrict lead-work and road-work where he's walking on hard surfaces to 5 minutes per month of life. Even if we keep his walks short he careers up and down the garden at a zillion miles an hour, so there's not much chance of restricting his free running.

I do what's known as coffee break training. Which basically means little and often, eg while the kettle is boiling for a cuppa. I keep different treats in jars on a shelf in the kitchen and do a bit whenever we're both in there or passing the jars, plus intermittently make sure I have something super delicious and recall him using the whistle to reinforce that. I use meal-times for 'leave' training now he he's doing so well with recall. All 3 dcs like to play with him, so he gets a fair amount of stimulation off them as well. Ds2 particularly loves spending time playing with him, but ds1's favourite is stroking him and talking in a soothing voice until he falls asleep.

I was so pleased with his lead-work up to the fields and back yesterday. He walked to heel really nicely on the way there, then I had both dogs on the way back and was able to walk them both comfortably, despite being on a narrow pavement close to a busy road.

Picnic just a few ideas.... have you tried slowly building up being able to cuddle. Eg starting with what the pup can except without growling maybe slight stoke on the head then treat? Again over and over. Increasing to where they are comfortable with the touch in training?
I was reading elsewhere a couple having trouble Being able to cuddle in front of the dog as he was growling. The advice was as above to just cuddle out of sight but in the meantime train with treats starting with just a gentle tap on the shoulder. It went on to say that in the dogs mind they maybe viewing the cuddle as physical harm as it 'a not something that they are use to. This may help with your daughter. Maybe the pup isnt going to be a cuddly dog type. My breed is known as a lap dog but she doesn't seem to like sitting on our lap!! We sit next to us fine just not so keen on the lap.
The strangers maybe abit more harder to overcome. Have you tried giving them treats to give to her ? Can you set up friends /family coming round to get her meeting lots of people where you can have better control.

I have been doing two 20 to 30 min walks a day. To be fair though on one of those she spends about 20 mins stopping and sniffing. If I was to walk it alone it would probably take me 5 mins. So I am not overly worried . She is coming up 6 mths.
Anyone any ideas how to get her to stop barking when she hears noises people outside as she has started to go on abit and isn't responding to food?

I'm looking forward to an invasion of collies today as my sister's two are coming for three weeks. One is three years old and the other 14 so Finn will get plenty of training from them, the younger one in playing and the older one in keeping a respectful distance!

Both are well trained so am hoping that this will help with Finn's recall on walks. Am prepared for a shattered puppy as he adores his Uncle Moss. When they play it's difficult to see where one collie ends and the other begins.

Thanks SallyBear and happygolucky for your thoughts/ideas. The next step for us is to go to the vet as we need them to make the referral to the behaviourist, so I assume that this is to rule out any possible medical issues first. He actually loves to have his tummy rubbed & so we are concentrating on touch that he enjoys. As for treating him in exchange for touch, that is essentially what we have been doing from day 1. He is happy for the kids to touch him everywhere, the only exception & the thing that causes him to growl is very specific - it is hugging especially if they hug him from the front where he cannot see. He does not like to be cornered either, and so people sort of coming at him is very intimidating. He does not like people patting his head and even if I try to stroke his head he will back away, but he has never, ever growled at me.
We just went out on a family walk and a couple came up to him & he growled and barked. They apologised and walked away, but what I don't get is that he followed them sniffing at their trousers. I think he's interested, but very intimidated. He never growls at people with dogs though.
I know you cannot advise me on this thread because obviously Legend has to be seen properly, but I'm wondering whether I should be now keeping him on a lead during walks until this is sorted? Or even, gosh, I hate to say it, but should I muzzle him?

Coffee break training is a great term and works much better for us than big chunks.

We just had our first puppy class with the puppies. It was awful. I hung my head in shame (not literally!) as minty barked at every dog, lunged at them and was generally the most disruptive. Oh dear it felt awful and I was mortified. Thankfully people smiled at us sympathetically rather than scowled.

The trainer had a bone which she gave us for when she wanted to speak as it was that bad. We have got our home visit arranged so will tackle this barking issue. I don't get it, there were other big dogs like a GSD and a giant schnauzer puppy who were chilled, the schnauzer flopped out and slept half the class while the GSD looked nervous especially at our hooligan puppy. DH thought I contributed by being stressed and not in control but how can you be calm when your dog is barking at others and leaping about? I'm back to wondering if we can manage such a boisterous dog and now I'm seriously not sure.

I'm really sorry to be going on about all this again by the way:( I hope you've all had great w/ends with your pups.

mint, you are not alone, that sounds very like how Legend was at Puppy training! He is not a big barker but all the lunging, hyperness, puffing and panting and being a looney. Personally I think it was stress. Legend was by far the worst dog at training too. This week, DH took him on his own and he said it was a little better, so don't be too downhearted, he might be better and more settled next week.

Hi picnic, sorry to cross post with you.

It sounds as though you've really worked out carefully what sort of touch he doesn't like which is a good starting point. Can you really work on avoiding those at home? If you can wait ill you've seen the behaviourist before trying anything new it might be better. They might not recommend a muzzle so perhaps best to keep things as they are for now and wait to see what they say. Maybe just do quiet off lead walks where you've got good visibility and can see people coming to go back on lead.

We were taught today that when we wanted to get the lead back on not to grab the dog but use a 'scatter' of treats on the ground and get lead on while puppy is enjoying those. Masses of treats used which I haven't really been doing - I've been really mean with treats.

Thanks picnic, that helps! I'm going to really try hard with our homework this week and maybe that will help if he can do the set commands well for next class. To be fair to him he did his Sit and Flat well!

I was at puppy class and there was one woman who literally un clipped her treat box gave her pup a treat and then put the box in her bag. The leader told her off. There was another woman who said that she didn't believe in treats and sure enough her 9wk old border collie was completely ignoring her. Meanwhile I was shoving treats into Toby - he was more interested in me than steaming after the woman's puppy. Toby (lab) is definitely reward driven. He will do anything for a treat - thankfully. So yes treat a lot for successful training.

Picnic, don't use a muzzle. Really bad idea. I wonder if you need to go back to basics with training with Legend. Praise him for every bit of good behaviour. Make him want to please you.

Picnic, from what you're saying I'd definitely make sure your vet checks his eyes out. Most of the situations you describe would be affected by a sight problem.

Hugging is something most dogs find difficult, although some learn to like it because it means attention and others tolerate it. The action of putting your arms around them, particularly around their neck and shoulders, as we tend to with larger dogs, can feel very invasive and dominant to them. Add that to the feeling of being trapped/not being able to escape and you can see why some dogs react to it.

Good luck with your vet appointment. Hopefully they can refer you to someone really soon and you can start to get a handle on the problem and come up with a programme to sort it out.

Mint, there are a couple of pups in our class that bark and jump about. The trainer gives each owner a kong with a smear of something yummy inside for them to offer when she's speaking. Honestly, don't feel bad - it's really common - a class full of puppies is soooo exciting and stimulating, it can take a couple of weeks for them to settle down.

I get through mounds of treats with Pip. When loose lead walking he get one shoved in his gob every couple of feet. When he recalls from something interesting he gets a whole handful and we can easily empty half a pot in a 5 minute training session.

I get through tonnes and it costs me a fortune, but it's definitely worth it, as he's really keyed into paying attention to wherever I am and whatever I'm doing as a result.

I also use different grades of treat. From bottom to top value we have basic kibble, fish4dogs training stars, air dried liver and garlic treats and/or air dried chicken and aniseed drops, fresh chicken chunks and top grade is a huge squidge of fish4dogs salmon mousse.

Meg (Border collie, 18 weeks) hyper bitey and barking these last few days. I think she is very over excited and I also wonder about over fed/ wrong feeding. The trouble with using treats a lot is that we use so many- she can easily get through her kibble ration in treats alone. Have bought basic mixer to use as treat to cut down the number of calories she is getting, since too much rich food gives her the trots very quickly. Any advice would be very welcome, beginning to think we have taken on too much. Thanks Meg and Barb.

What brand of kibble is she on? Some dogs do get hyper on certain brands. Could you try her on some fresh chicken (with or without rice depending if she tolerates it) for a week and see if that helps. If it does, you could then start gradually introducing her to a new more suitable kibble from there.

I do have to admit I'm at a distinct advantage with treats, because my boy is so super skinny and never seems to gain no matter how much he gets to eat.

Boiled chicken or fish cut up into little chunks is easy on the digestion and not too high in calories. It's a bit messier than other training treats but I had to use both for quite a long time when Pip's digestion was still very delicate.

The important thing is to remember to keep each treat tiny, especially if you're clicker training and therefore using a lot in each session.

Thanks Moose, she is 1/2 way between swopping from James Wellbeloved to Burns ( behaviourist recommended Burns) doing a very slow swop because her tum gets upset very easily. Chicken/turkey also upsets it. Chappie (I know, not great, but the vet recommended) has really settled it for the first time since we had her, so her diet is basically Chappie 50%, Kibble other 50%. That's not enough kibble for training so mixer to pad out. Cheese for recall.
I think myself she is still over fed- judging by the vast amount that comes out! She looks just right though.
She overstimulates very easily at the moment- two minutes stroking, dd walking past. Has a good 2 walks a day plus garden play. Desperately chewing everything- tempted to try baby teething gel.

Barb. We had to come off Burns Puppy. Toby (lab) had horrific diarrhoea and mucous covered poo. I tried another more vet based diet and he was even worse. In the end I threw in the towel and Toby now has a home cooked diet (minced beef, potato, carrot and parsnips cooked in stock) with some mixer to keep his teeth healthy and we've not had a single nasty poo since. I've been feeding him that for the last 6 weeks. He's now 19 weeks and his coat is beautiful and he's putting on a reasonable amount of weight and is growing well. The vet is happy with what we are doing. I alternate between pork, beef and chicken.

Arghhh house-training - when is he going to be reliable???
Poo in the crate again this morning - I'd put him out before I went to bed but it was pouring with rain and he turned straight round and ran back into bed... This morning he rushed out to do an enormous wee and ran back inside (still raining). I cleared up the first mess then turned round to see he'd done another poo on the kitchen floor

I don't understand why he's not getting it - we had two wees on the floor yesterday as well... He's never been told off for accidents in the house, he's been praised to the skies for gong outside and is taken outside if he hasn't asked to go after any transition. He's intelligent and gets everything else we want him to do really quickly (apart from rollover - he's rubbish at that!)

Help!!!!

Basildon, same here, the accident free days are entirely good luck. Meg doesn't see why she shouldn't and doesn't yet know how to ask to go outside if she did.

The toilet training just takes more time for some. I put her on the lead and just stand around doing nothing for 5 mins now. As given the choise she prefers the carpet to the wet grass in the evenings when it's cold and wet. Crate training at night helped alot with being clean overnight.

If you are worried about feeding too much treats you could take it from her food allowance for the day. Eg I use liver/ ham/ or chicken then she would be given less at the next meal.

If you are worried Picnic that your dog would bite then I personally wouldn't let him off the lead. But if he is just barking without aggressiveness then maybe he just needs to learn to greet people. They say barking is a form of communication for a dog. it is just a case of working out what he is trying to communicate. Without seeing him it isn't possible if that barking us saying I want you to play or go away I am protecting myself /owner ect.

How is pip doing being left now moousemamma?
I think we have got it sorted now but it has been a mission!

He's had a bit of a backward slide after I was stuck at home for a fortnight through a combination of dcs and myself with various viruses then we had half-term week immediately afterwards. I can't actually remember the last time he was left, we just haven't needed to leave him, as he's been able to come everywhere with us, which isn't good really, as I now need to start at square one again.

Ds2 and dd have an INSET day today, so it's just me and them at home and every time I go upstairs Pip starts yelling. I have spent an awful lot of time today going in and out the living room door for no reason other than to desensitise him to my leaving through it.

He's happy to be in the kitchen while I'm in the living room or in the garden while I'm in the house and sleeps fine in the kitchen overnight. He doesn't follow me from room to room either, so I don't think he's over-attached. He just doesn't like to think he's missing out and is only happy/quiet while I'm out when totally engrossed in something like a kong. The minute he finishes and realises I'm not around to entertain him he starts yelling.

Oddly he doesn't yell when left in the crate in the car or camper van. I'm starting to think I'm going to have to put him in the camper if I need to go to one of the dcs' assemblies or to dd's nativity etc as the longest he can go without starting to yell is an hour and I have to leave a ridiculous amount of kongs and treat toys in his crate with him for him to last that long. Fortunately our drive is very shady so it will be fine for the winter months, but we need to get him sorted before next spring.

It's far from ideal. I've been practically housebound during the week since we got him on 9th August and it really gets to me sometimes. Feeling OK at the moment as dh has most of last week off and we went out somewhere different every day, but I'm sure my sanity will start slipping again once the dcs have been back at school for a few days.

moosemama, that's exactly what my friend does with her greyhound, leaves him in the camper van! He has always had really bad separation anxiety, but has always been fine left in the van, even in the summer because of its roof......don't know why but it stays very cool. Anyway I think the dog felt like it was going with them, even if left in the van:)

Well I had my sister over for the day with her boys. What a day! Legend decided to take a real dislike to my eldest nephew and basically barked non stop at him & was being very intimidating. I had to put him in his bed in then end and shut the stairgate. I think he must have found the day very stressful as he snoring in his bed right now, which is early for him!