New Puppy Mummies Part 2

[SallyBear]

Just thought I'd start the new thread!

Toby (foxy coloured yellow Labrador) is now 13 weeks old. Long, lean and lanky. Still wonderfully tempered and is sleeping through and no longer messing in the house.

[SallyBear]

Yes!! Frozen yogurty tubes are good too.

[mintchocchick]

Frozen yoghurt tubes sound good - I've used carrots from freezer.

We've had a phone chat with our dog trainer and arranged home visit for next week. The main problems we need to tackle are over excitement in the evenings, leaping up at us, play biting, barking if we stand still and do nothing! And he's also started leaping up at me when we are doing off-lead walks practising recall with whistle. I've been upset about it in the past few days as it is getting worse not better and I feel well out of my depth.

Immediate thoughts from trainer over phone, when she heard about the training I'm doing and mintys usual duration/type of walks are that we are doing too much. Our walks are too long, with too much stimulation I.e. Children, scooters, buggies etc. we need to let him be a puppy -he's 16 weeks and needs to prioritise sleep, rest, little 15-20 walks in quiet places but no walks over 20 mins and no more school run walks. Apparently his adrenalin is getting fired up and he can't handle it so by evening the excess in his system is making him wired.

I need to think about it all and also read over thread as I've lost track of everyone!

[moosemama]

Knuckle bones are ok for teething, but not for when they've got all their adult teeth in case of slab fractures. As long as it's good and meaty, rather than all bare bone it will really help her teeth.

I was going to get some Nelson's Teetha for Pip till I found out it contains Xylitol which is seriously dangerous for dogs - as in 100 x more toxic than chocolate. (It's also in human toothpaste too, by the way, so only ever use dog specific paste when cleaning teeth.)

Might still get some plain Chamomilla Granules for him though, as they have sucrose - which is basically just sugar in instead.

Never needed to with any of my other dogs, but Pip is really suffering. His gums are all red and inflammed and have bled quite a bit too. Poor - not so little - thing.

[moosemama]

Minty, so sorry to hear you've been upset. Trainer sounds very sensible and I do think she/he could well be right about overstimulation. I'm sure they trainer will be able to help you settle Minty and put your mind at rest.

I saw a young OES on that Ben Fogle Animal Clinic programme last night and it was exactly the same - totally hyper and bonkers, even though it had just had a plate inserted into it's shoulder. Some breeds are just more lively than others and take longer to mature and settle down. You're doing a great job and he's just being an OES. Please don't feel bad.

I still have to enforce naps on Pip sometimes as he gets so wound up and doesn't realise how tired he is and he's 23 weeks tomorrow.

[haggisaggis]

Angus is really jumpy and bitey in the evenings too - he's only 12 weeks though so am hoping he'll settle down..
How do you stop it? I try and distract him with toys but doesn't always work. Yelping at him is no good - makes him worse if anything. Doesn't help when the dc try to run away from him and jump onto the couch - and of course he just follows.

[barbarianoftheuniverse]

Minty, two weeks ago Meg was exactly like that (and worse) very snappy and hyper especially by evening. We came to exactly the same conclusion- too much stimulation. As soon as snapping started we put her to bed in crate, stopped all over exciting games eg tug of war. She is now unbelievably better- no snapping, hardly any nipping.
We also changed her food a little- any brand of puppy kibble seemed too rich- we added about 20% plain mixer to lower the protein content. She is still very busy and bonkers, but border collies are.

[mintchocchick]

Thanks, this thread is invaluable.

Moose - not sure if you remember telling me a couple of weeks ago, that you thought the school run walk was too stimulating for minty? Well, you were right! Have you trained as a dog trainer or did you say you used to help out at a class? You obviously have a lot of insight into doggy behaviour and you're so so helpful to loads of us on this thread. Thank you Moose for so many helpful contributions.

We are going for chilled out puppy time this weekend - I stuck to trainers advice about limiting it to 15 mins this morning and done nothing since so I will do a training walk this evening of 10 mins only. Same over weekend, we will skip our usual weekend walk where we were out for an hour, perhaps walking for 40 mins of that.

I would love to reach the point where we have a calm chilled out OES but I do recognise the breed is boisterous so I'm going to have realistic expectations! Absence of ripped clothes would be nice though!

[mintchocchick]

Barbarian - that is so reassuring! Light at the end of the tunnel! You know when you used to put your puppy in the crate, to stop the nipping, hyper stuff? How did you then get him to calm and settle? Or did it just happen?

I ask because although we don't use a crate, we have a stairgate at kitchen door and we've tried putting minty behind stairgate but he barks and leaps up at gate and is so noisy we end up either shooing him into garden (shooing in a cross way usually, which I know does no good at all, I'm just being honest) or letting him come back and join us, which I'm sure just reinforces the barking. That's what I mean about feeling out of our depth - I know we are doing the wrong thing but I can't seem to think of the right thing to do!

By the way, one reason I can't tolerate the barking is because DS2 is usually trying to get to sleep and has problems at school and home if he is tired so I try and do everything to protect the peace for an hour or so. Maybe my stress over this is making the problem worse?!

[SallyBear]

I think that Moose is our very own Dog Whisperer.

[barbarianoftheuniverse]

Minty, we gave her quiet things to do- kibble biscuits to snuffle out in her bed which turned her attention from us. Put a blanket over her crate, so it was darkish and quiet. She went quiet very quickly, though. Also I baked her extremely hard dog bickipegs that she had to slow down to gnaw. We also put the radio on so she didn't feel all along.
She has more exercise than yours though, at least 90 minutes a day I think.
(She chewed on that knuckle bone until she fell asleep beside it!)

She is far from perfect, but the behaviourist we booked couldn't visit for ten days and by that time we cancelled because there was nothing much left for her to see. Nothing more than normal puppiness. Good luck!

[moosemama]

I am just very old and have had a lot of dogs over the years. I still make plenty of mistakes and my own dogs are far from perfect.

I nearly cried this afternoon when I got back from the school run to find Pip had screamed for the last 15 minutes I was out. (Thank heavens my neighbour is always out on a Friday afternoon.) I was wracking my brains trying to work out what was different about today, whilst simultaneously losing the will to live. Then as I went to remove his kongs, as soon as I opened the crate he shot to the back door and started frantically telling me he needed to go out - poor boy had a bad stomach and had been holding it in - hence the screaming.

Mint, have you watched the Kikopup videos on capturing calmness? They might help. I taught Pip to settle in his crate and behind the dog-gate by sitting close by - as in up against the crate to begin with - and talking in a calm soothing voice, then saying 'settle' as he started to go sleepy. Basically you just need to capture him when he is being calm - not easy I know - and put it on cue.

If he simply won't settle, find some boring treats, such as his usual kibble, put him in the place you want to settle - so behind the dog gate - and toss one to him every time he's quiet. Then start to withold the treat while you wait for him to lie down, then only treat when he's quiet and down, then gradually lengthen the gaps between treating to extend the time he has to stay quietly lying down before he gets a treat. You could delay his evening meal and feed it to him like this to get lots and lots of repetitions in and even if it takes him a while to catch on, at least it should keep him quiet while your ds gets off to sleep.

Don't use anything too tasty or interesting, purely because you don't want it to be too exciting for him and giving him something lovely and smelly/tasty will make him too keen.

Your worry about him waking ds could be part of the problem, they pick up on our stress/anxiety very easily and either capitalise on it to push the boundaries or start to feel stressy and hyper themselves - but it's hard to know which it is without seeing him in action.

Hope that makes sense, I have ds1 monologuing about Minecraft in one ear and it's making a touch difficult to concentrate.

[basildonbond]

Mint - I saw a very relaxed OES (grown-up one) walking calmly alongside its owner today and thought of you - there is hope :)

Welcome to new Stanley!

And yes, moose is our very own dog whisperer - thank you moose for your reassurance and advice. I think all us new puppy owners are so anxious not to get it wrong that sometimes we tie ourselves up in knots

Mint - re 'containing' minty when he's hyper - could you try the crate or a pen again? Fitz won't settle behind a stair gate but when he starts getting hyper we put him in his crate which has got an old duvet over it which makes it more den like and he finds it easier to calm down and go to sleep

[LoreleisSecret]

Thank you for the welcome.
New Stanley (or Stanley HeartNose as Iam calling him due to heart shape on nose ) had his first jabs this evening. Didn't flinch (but I cried ??) weighing in at a hefty 2.2kg Got thoroughly spoilt afterwards needless to say.

[moosemama]

Pip would be scared of your little Stanley Lorelies. For some reason the smaller other dogs are, the more they scare him.

Pip is 23 weeks old tomorrow (where did the time go?) weighs coming up for 14kg, is almost 23" to his shoulder now and can run like the wind, so has absolutely no reason to be scared of little dogs. Even if they could catch him - which they never can - they can't actually reach further than his ankles!

[mintchocchick]

We've had a frantic evening so maybe the adrenalin takes a while to work out their systems. Stuck to a 15 min off lead in morning and a 15 min on lead walk this evening, so only 30 in total for the day, but still hyper - even worse tonight than usual. Minty got way over excited, barking, leaping and while I was getting off the sofa to retrieve the many toys I had thrown for him, he bit my leg through the jeans so another bit of clothing with a hole in it.

The minute I went into kitchen and sat at table doing nothing - MN - he flopped onto bed and fell asleep immediately. After 2 hrs of manic behaviour he flopped in 2 mins. But I don't like the way I have to leave the sitting room and sit in kitchen to get him to settle. I am moaning I know and I shouldn't because I wanted a puppy and (sort of) knew all it entailed and it will be fine, but it doesn't half wear you down.

I've been capturing calm Moose and it works a treat in the daytime - he is a dream puppy and I leave him for decent chunks of time - an hour at a time, he sees me going and is happy enough to flop back to sleep without needing kongs or anything - he just sleeps all day with "coffee break training" in short bursts. I couldn't be happier with him in the day. Just evenings, he's another story. We will get there I'm sure and we only have 6 days will trainer home visit so maybe all will calm down in that time!

Thanks to everyone sorry I haven't kept up with the thread much. Been spending most of my internet time desperately reading "how to calm your puppy websites"!

[mintchocchick]

Pip is really tall Moose! 23inches - how tall will he get then? Is there a way of estimating final height? I read somewhere that you can estimate adult weight by timing weight at 16wks by 2.5.

Will Pip not sleep in her crate yet while you go out? Would the antler chews help? They seem safe enough to be left with. I must order more of those as they really help with teething.

What's Stanley like? Is he bitey? Sleeping lots? The first few weeks seem like a blur for me!

[LoreleisSecret]

Pip sounds wonderful.

What are antler chews? I think Stanley HN definitely needs these!
He is very play bitey sadly but, sleeps tons. Last night he slept 8 solid hours and has probably napped around 4 hours in total. I wish my children did

[moosemama]

Mint, if he's sleeping that much in the day, perhaps he's not over-stimulated, so much as full of excess energy in the evening. So hard to tell over the net really.

Not sure if it will help, but I'll give you an example of Pip's routine.

6.30 up and out for toileting. Back in and generally a pita while dh makes the dcs' breakfast. Dh usually gets a few toys out and scatters them around and Pip makes a nuisance of himself charging around with those, annoying ds1 who is supposed to be getting ready for school and repeatedly asking dh to let him in the garden.

7.00 I get up, ignore him for 5 minutes (this is because he decided it was a good idea to launch himself at me the minute I stepped through the living room door, still half asleep every morning) then call him to me to say good morning and have a fuss and a play.

7.20, ds1's transport arrives to pick him up, ds2 and dd get up. Pip usually says hello to them (he's always so pleased to see us all in the mornings) then goes back into his crate for a rest while they eat breakfast. We used to shut him in at this point to stop him table/counter surfing, but he's learned not to do that now and has got into the routine of staying in there for a while.

8.00 If dh is taking the dcs to school Pip gets fed at 8.00, if I'm doing it he has to wait for his feeder and kongs at 8.45.

He generally has a play with ds2 from about 8.20 to when I let him out for a wee, just before we go out at 8.45.

I get back from the school run about 9.00-9.05 ish, remove his kongs etc, take him outside, do a short training session then he takes himself off for another sleep until between 10.00 and 10.30.

We usually go for a walk when he wakes up, then he gets fed at 12.00/12.30 and has another nap, for about an hour.

Another walk often around 1.30, then back home, where he amuses himself with antlers, various toys and picking on Lurcherboy.

3.05 - afternoon school run. I'm out until around 3.35 and he's usually fine with his kongs and green feeder. When we get back I leave him in his crate while I sort the dcs and prepare their snacks. Then I remove his kongs etc, he goes out again and tends to play with the dcs for a while.

At some point he takes himself off for another nap and usually wakes when ds1 gets home at 5.00 pm. Then he gets under my feet while I cook the tea until I tell him to go to his bed at which point he lies there looking heartbroken at me until he realises it's not going to work and finds a toy or small person to play with.

6.30 dh gets home and we have tea. Pip tends to stay the other side of the dog gate and either snooze or play with his toys - or whine if he feels we are taking too long.

7.00 - I keep Pip with me, while dh does the bedtime routine with the dcs, as our bathroom is downstairs and the dcs tend to be a bit manic and hyper. I sometimes make him submit to a big old cuddle, but often as not distract him with a bit of training.

8.00 lights out for the dcs - Pip and Lurcherboy tend to suddenly get a bit loopy at this point, but we are very strict and put them in their beds if they're noisy. Then by half past they're both usually settled and have assumed foot warming positions for dh and I in the living room.

10.30-11.00 ish he goes out for his last wee/poo and we settle him in his crate for the night.

I tend to throw in training sessions here and there, whenever it seems appropriate. So for example, when I am letting him out in the garden on his own, I work on back (he always stands too close to the door so I can't open it ), sit and wait. When the doorbell goes I do a bit more sit and wait to stop him coming in the hall or bolting through the front door. I ask him for a behaviour such as sit/down/paw/high-five/touch in exchange for the odd treat here and there and also do a bit of off-lead heelwork if he's moving from room to room with me. Literally just a minute or so here and there and only if it fits in with what we're doing. When he's outside, if I notice he's right up the other end of the garden I occasionally get something super tasty out for him to eat then use the whistle to call him in and reward him. I sometimes do the same to call him from room to room.

Not sure if that adds up to more or less naps and training than Minty is getting and to be honest, we don't have a very strict routine, so walks etc can change times depending on how I think the dogs are feeling, how I'm feeling, the weather etc.

[moosemama]

Sorry, cross posted. Other more experienced Lurcher owners have estimated around 26-28" - but it's not unknown for their growth to slow down significantly or even stall once they get to about 24. He still has fair sized knuckles, so I think 26" is definitely in the offing.

Lurcherboy is only 24", but a lot stockier, having a healthy chunk of Deerhound in his mix.

I haven't tried settling him to sleep in his crate when I go out. Purely due to my own paranoia about him disturbing the neighbours. I need to leave him with something to occupy him. Actually dh and I were discussing trying it just last weekend, as he has a distinct bedtime settling routine and we wondered if we did that when we went out in the daytime, would he settle just as well. I'm also aware that giving him kongs etc is exciting, so less likely to lead to him sleeping calmly when we're gone. I think we do need to try it, but might need my neighbours to go on holiday again first.

Loreleis these are the antler chews we buy. I get the split ones like this but a bigger size for my dogs as they're easier on the teeth, but they can still get at the marrowbone. They've been a godsend for Pip while he's been teething. I also bought him a fallow antler as apparently they're softer than other antlers so easier on puppy teeth. I only gave him that one today, but he's loving it.

There are pictures of both my dogs on my profile if you're interested. Do you have any pictures of Stanley you could post - we love puppy pictures!

[LoreleisSecret]

Thank you for those links, I will definitely get one of those for Stanley. Iam so glad I have found you all, I have been very a bit overwhelmed with my new found responsibility and I have enjoyed reading all your early posts about your puppies OH thinks Iam being silly but, I feel like he is my new baby. I feel a lot happier after seeing the vet who said he was in fantastic health.

Iam using an iPhone but will definitely attempt to post a picture. He is ridiculously cute, our vet appointment took twice as long as we kept getting stopped by people wanting a cuddle.

Happy Weekend to you all. Wish we could take pup for a walk - 3 weeks and counting !

[LoreleisSecret]

I THINK I downloaded some pictures. Or 3 of the same picture ?? hope you can see it!

[SallyBear]

Lorelei. I got fed up trying to put photos on my MN profile with my iPhone, so I just use Dropbox and copy it as a text message onto the thread. Seems to work.

[SallyBear]

Toby (Labrador) aged 19 weeks.
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