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The doghouse

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New Puppy Mummies Part 2

991 replies

SallyBear · 24/09/2013 13:16

Just thought I'd start the new thread!

Toby (foxy coloured yellow Labrador) is now 13 weeks old. Long, lean and lanky. Still wonderfully tempered and is sleeping through and no longer messing in the house.

OP posts:
diplodocus · 25/09/2013 10:03

Thanks - have ordered the fishy stars. She's quite itchy (despite being on a high grade, hypoallergenic dog food) so some extra fish oil would be good. Will also get some chicken in.

basildonbond · 25/09/2013 10:13

I'm trying to get my head around exactly how much Fitz is eating as I really, really don't want a fat dog!

He's now on Hill's vetessentials puppy food which he loves - I've been mixing it with a bit of wainwright's wet food but am gradually phasing the wet food out

For his weight he should be on about 200g of kibble a day if that's all he was eating but of course he's getting training treats and the odd kong

the treats are cut up really small (hot dog, chicken, tripe sausage, cheese) and he loves a medium puppy kong with cooked chicken - but all together that must add up to quite a few calories - and he gets through a kong in minutes (even tightly stuffed - has now got the hang of them!) so they don't buy me much time ...

Am I doing the right thing???

diplodocus · 25/09/2013 10:37

Basildonbond - no advice but am jealous you have a toller! Beautiful dogs.

moosemama · 25/09/2013 10:46

Basildon, chicken, if skinless, doesn't add much in the way of calories, same with the hot dog, but the tripe, sausage and cheese would be fatty - so perhaps keep them for high grade rewards and stick to the lower cal stuff for kongs.

Don't know about the food you have Fitz on, but ours is worked out on predicted adult weight, rather than current puppy weight and if you are worried you could take off a small percentage of kibble allowance to allow for the treats and kongs.

Pip is the same with kongs now, he's gone from being unable to get past the top segment to being able to demolish them ridiculously fast. I have to go to the Harvest Festival at the school on Friday morning, because ds2's class is doing a play. So yesterday for, afternoon school run, I stuffed loads of kongs and busy buddies etc to see how long they lasted.

He had 2 small puppy kongs stuffed with chicken and Fish4Dogs salmon mousse, 1 medium puppy kong with chicken, salmon mousse and kibble and one medium adult kong with the same filling, plus a kong dental bar smeared in mousse and a medium puppy busy buddy. That lot lasted him from 3.05 to 3.53 then he started to whinge at me. I checked and he hadn't reached the ends of the kongs, so showed them to him and put them back in his bed - it then took him 10 more minutes to empty the lot. Shock So, I am going to be out for an hour and a half-ish on Friday and he's most likely going to yell the place down for the last half hour. Hmm

The problem is, my neighbours - who are lovely - but are both retired, stay up really late and lie in bed late in the mornings.

Fridays are my biggest worry as well, because it was a Friday morning, shortly after Oldgirl died, that they stuck an angry note on my front door telling me that Lurcherboy was 'howling ... again!'. We had no idea he was doing it before then and seeing the note really upset me, as I was already raw from the loss of my girl. I was very angry and upset that they stuck such an angry/rude note on the door without bothering to speak to us first, as how on earth could we know he was howling when we weren't there, unless they told us?

I made myself ill worrying about it, stressed constantly and hardly left the house for weeks. Spent hours stuffing kongs and treat balls and walking him 3-4 hours a day to try and wear him out so he'd be quiet during the 3 school runs a day I had to do last year, plus doing an intensive Separation Anxiety programme with him.

It was ok in the end though. Eventually I managed to catch and speak to them and they were actually very nice about it. Probably because we took immediate action, so he wasn't bothering them anymore. They hadn't realised we'd lost Oldgirl, were fine once they knew we were working on it and said not to worry as it was so rare they heard him and if he was left it was never for longer than an hour-ish, but I'm so stressed worrying about Pip disturbing them now that we have Lurcherboy sorted - I don't what them to think we're taking the proverbial 'P'. Hmm

I did tell them we would be getting a pup and that it had been recommended by several Lurcher experts and a couple of behaviourists, as Lurcherboy actually suffers from Isolation Distress, not Separation Anxiety - which means he isn't over-attached to us, he just get's stressed when he's totally alone - as he's always been with other dogs from birth - so getting another dog was most likely going to be the best solution. Even so, we waited until Lurcherboy was able to be left for an hour and a half without howling before we got another dog.

The thing is, we didn't bank on getting such a noisy monkey as Pip! Grin

The irony is, that when we go out at the moment, Pip is in his crate in the living room and Lurcherboy is still in the kitchen on his own! Hmm

Neighbours have brought their caravan home this week though, so fingers crossed they may be going away and we'll be able to get Pip settled in the kitchen with Lurcherboy without upsetting them.

moosemama · 25/09/2013 10:47

Grin Blush Mahoosive post! Blush

moosemama · 25/09/2013 11:25

Just googled calming music for dogs, as it was mentioned on a tv programe I was watching and came across .

Pip was just having one of his puppy mad half hours, zooming about yipping and generally acting bonkers - put this on, he got straight in his bed, cocked his head at the music a few times and fell asleep. Shock Could be coincidence, as he does tend to conk out anyway after his puppy zoomies, but he was mid-zoomie when I put it on now he's spark out. Grin

Awks · 25/09/2013 11:29

Primula, what a good idea. I wonder if you could use it when trying to get them to walk to heel, sort of hold it by your knee and squirt a bit out from time to time. Though that would probably just meen cheesy jeans rather than well behaved pup.

Lifeisontheup · 25/09/2013 12:04

Finn is home and has done his first wee and poo in the garden. Seems to like his crate and is now asleep on his sitting room bed after chewing the leg of his toy and watching a bit of friends with a slightly puzzled look on his face. Picture on my profile just before he dozed off. Smile

mintchocchick · 25/09/2013 12:41

Finn looks lovely Lifeison, congratulations! I wish you a good nights sleep tonight.

Awks - I laughed at the idea of cheesy jeans! I think that's a good idea though. I tried walking on the lead in the garden and found I got backache pretty quickly from bending down slightly while holding a treat by my knee, so maybe tube of primula is easier that way too.

Moose - couldn't you try moving Pip to the kitchen while you're out? Sorry if you've already discounted that idea as being unworkable, but if you have your older dog in there it must be relatively dog-safe. I found as soon as we got Zebo out the crate into the kitchen, he settled to sleep when I was upstairs / out for school run and he doesn't bat an eye now when he sees me go. I wonder if the crate is too confining for daytime. I know that Zebo gets up and walks around when I'm not there as I often come into the kitchen and find his water bowl finished/spread around floor, washing up gloves on floor, t-towels dragged down from hook etc so I imagine part of why he's happy is this bit of freedom (though I am going to put up some raised hooks!)

moosemama · 25/09/2013 13:03

It's not that it's not dog safe mint, it's that it's echoey, attached to the room the neighbours spend most of the day in and their bedroom is just above that one, so if he makes a noise, they will be more likely to hear him.

We are moving his crate to the kitchen at the earliest opportunity, but he will have to be crated, because:

a) He mercilessly rags poor old Lurcherboy mercilessly until I intervene. Lurcherboy is a big wuss 99.9% of the time and stands there looking pathetic and takes it, but he has told Pip off a few times and I don't want that happening when I can't supervise them, in case it escalates and

b) They both have kongs and treat toys when we're out, which could cause a fight.

He is loose the whole time I'm home and I do leave them together in the kitchen with the dog gate closed when I'm in and out around the house and garden. (Lurcherboy can leap the dog-gate easily if he wants to, so if Pip starts bugging him he can escape.)

We don't have anywhere that's easily puppy proofed to the extent that a young pup could be left for an extended period unsupervised (cottagey house, with complicated kitchen set up) so a crate is our only option until he gets past the chewing stage.

moosemama · 25/09/2013 13:06

Just realised that makes no sense. What I mean is that, we don't not leave him in the kitchen due to puppy proofing - although that would also be an issue in this house - the noise issue is why he's not even in there in his crate yet.

Damn this medication, I can't seem to say what I mean without going all around the houses at the moment. Hmm

mintchocchick · 25/09/2013 13:09

That sounds tricky Moose. I'm sure if you go and explain to your neighbours they'll be fine. Maybe their note before was a sort of snapping reaction and they might well have regretted leaving such a brief note afterwards. If you explain that you have to let Pip get used to be being left and if they understand it's part of a bigger picture, his training, they might be very understanding.

That or chocolates! I must get some for our neighbours as they are attached to us and have put up with 2 weeks of howling at night. It's worked at puppy now sleeps through but I feel so bad for what we've put them through. Thankfully they're doggy people and she was agreeing with me that you have to leave them to adapt to new rules and that can take time.

mintchocchick · 25/09/2013 13:12

I get what you mean Moose! I also wonder though if you think the noise transfer is worse than it actually is. Cottages often have thick walls.

Plus slight deafness may be a positive factor if they are elderly. My parents seem to be deaf to my kids fighting when we visit - I'm all stressed and intervening and they just sit there all calm, saying 'arguing? Can't hear any arguing?' Maybe that'll be the case for your neighbours?

moosemama · 25/09/2013 13:53

Thanks mintchoc.

They aren't elderly, both took early retirement, so still in their 50's with no kids or pets. Hmm They are genuinely nice people though.

Unfortunately they never answer their front door and we have a huge hedge between our drives, so unless I happen to be out there when they're going in or out I can't catch them.

Think I might have to resort to a well worded note to apologise in advance if he disturbs them on Friday morning and let them know we're in the process of training him to be left. I have no doubt they will already have heard him while we're in, as he's a right gobby little so and so when he wants Lurcherboy to play with him. Hmm

Oddly enough, the last time Lurcherboy howled was last term - when there was another unavoidable school thing I had to attend (we record him when we leave now) I bumped into them on the drive and apologised and they said they hadn't heard him. Confused

I think I just have a huge hang up about it now, so it's probably more my problem than theirs in reality.

mintchocchick · 25/09/2013 14:13

Genuinely nice people won't mind hearing some noise from a puppy in training. Or an older dog. It's life, it's part of living in a community. I think a brief note is a good idea, but don't feel you need to apologise too much!

Does anyone have any ideas of positive ways to get kids to play with puppies? I spoke with our dog trainer as DS2 who is 8 is getting puppy really excited by running around garden, throwing things, calling, generally acting like best litter mate in the world - but then shrieking and being upset when puppy launches at him and grabs dressing gown, shorts, knee!

The dog trainer said zero tolerance for biting, supervise child and puppy at all times, stop any excited play. She then sent me a really helpful leaflet with do's and don't's - well, don't's actually.

Don't let kids run with puppies, no rough and tumble, no teasing etc - all good advice. But no ideas for what an 8 yr old CAN do with a puppy. I can see him getting really frustrated with me saying no to everything, I need to give him some good ideas for play.

BTW training doesn't work as DS2 is too high pitched and the puppy has zero respect for him, so ignores all his commands! Also Ds2 can't give treats as he's scared to offer treats on a flat hand.

moosemama · 25/09/2013 14:46

Have to get ready for the school run, but just quickly, he can give treats by tossing them on the floor. Varying treat delivery can actually help with training and tossing them on the floor will help pup to learn it's rewarding to keep all 4 paws on the floor around kids.

My three like to play rag/tug games with Pip, but I was careful to teach him give/drop first so they can always get him to let go and they only play with a long fleece tuggy so they can keep their hands well clear of his chops. The trick is not to let them get OTT with it and you stop the game if it gets too much.

Another good one is to get them to hide a toy under something and get pup to find it, just something simple like a cardboard box or bowl to start with, working up to playing proper hide and seek - no physical interaction with that one and it really gets pups mind working.

We're lucky as well, because they can use a flinger to throw a ball for Lurcherboy and Pip just chases up and down the garden hopelessly trying to catch up - so they get the fun of watching him galumph about without the nipping.

I'm sure there's a website somewhere with ideas of games for kids to play with dogs. Will see if I can find it a but later.

haggisaggis · 25/09/2013 15:00

I'm tentatively going to check into this - we plan to collect our new pup in 3 weeks time - rough collie. He'll be 9 weeks. It's ages since we had a dog and am excited and dreading it at the same time. He's being weaned onto a raw diet which I am also really nervous about..

Lifeisontheup · 25/09/2013 15:09

I will be changing Finn to a raw food diet ASAP. I've heard really good things about it.

Lifeisontheup · 25/09/2013 15:35

He's asleep in his crate!!!! I shut him in it to feed him and then left him there whilst I filled the dishwasher and tidied up. I then went upstairs to collect washing and he wailed for five minutes then fell asleep. Keeping a close eye on him so that we can take him outside as soon as he wakes up.
He's managed 4 wees and 2 poos outside so far, none inside yet.Smile

moosemama · 25/09/2013 16:13

Hi and welcome haggisaggis. Lurcherboy is fed raw, although we've just lost our local supplier so may have to have a rethink, as we don't have room for a decent sized freezer.

He has a main diet of chicken wings, frames and quarters, lamb ribs, lamb breast if I think he needs a bit of extra fat (usually in winter) and any other meat the butcher has an overstock of and is happy to sell us cheap, plus eggs, yoghurt, cottage cheese, sardines, mackerel, white fish and a small amount of offal - usually liver or kidney. He also has a small amount of fruit and veg, but not much really. I don't do tripe, purely because, as a vegetarian I cannot stand the smell, it makes me retch - literally.

He is fit, health, has a lovely shiny coat, lovely white teeth and does very small poos considering his size! Grin

I'm not a puritan though and he does get Canagan as well, depending on what we could get at the vets or if say, we are going on holiday where we won't be able to access or store raw food as easily as we can at home.

This is a good source of information about it.

haggisaggis · 25/09/2013 16:22

Thanks moose - I've had a quick look at that site before. The breeder feeds raw minced tripe & chicken (bought frozen) together with chicken wings / pieces etc - mixed with a little cooked veg. I know I can buy the frozen stuff quite easily - not sure if the freezer is big enough though. It's getting the "meaty bones" I'm a bit unsure of - and working out how much to feed! Our last dog was fed dried food (think it was Hills but was a while ago) so this is a bit of a leap.

moosemama · 25/09/2013 16:45

Places like this can be helpful when you're starting out, but you have to watch the all in one mince/meat mixes, especially with pups as some have far too high a bone content.

mintchocchick · 25/09/2013 16:54

Moose -thanks you're a minefield of helpful information! The hide and seek is a great idea, I'll try that this evening. I don't think my DS can cope with tug even supervised - he doesn't seem to get the whole thing about not winding up a puppy. He is like a puppy himself.

I waited till our youngest was 8 before getting a dog - I've been so keen for years but thought 8 was a good age - but our previously normal 8 yr old has regressed into toddler-not-listening phase. He ignores me totally - he is the one that needs training!

moosemama · 25/09/2013 17:33

I'm also a minefield of completely useless information, just a head full of chaos really! Grin

Have you tried the clicker on your ds? Wink If you like the Big Bang Theory, there's an episode where Sheldon uses the same process to modify Penny's behaviour Grin

I've just been looking for that page about kid/dog games but can't seem to find it. Will keep looking.

Just asked ds2 (9) what's his favourite way of playing with Pip and he said tuggy, followed by 'find your toys'. I am also involving him in a bit of basic training, but he's very sensible and calm and has taken the trouble to read my puppy books so he knows what to do and I always supervise him closely.

basildonbond · 25/09/2013 18:50

Not had a great puppy day today - Fitz has woken up at 5 for the last two days and although he goes back to sleep I can't - have to get up at 6:15 anyway so can't relax enough to drop off for fear of oversleeping

He's been v bitey today and ignoring all his toys in favour of anything he can't have and he seems bored with training - wandered off in the middle of a v short session this morning as a dried leaf was more interesting than hot dog Hmm

We don't seem to be getting anywhere with recall and to top it off I was holding one of the cats when she got scared of him, lashed out at me and scarpered - cue me dropping blood trying to coax terrified cat back inside:(

It does get better, right?