Just thought I'd start the new thread!
Toby (foxy coloured yellow Labrador) is now 13 weeks old. Long, lean and lanky. Still wonderfully tempered and is sleeping through and no longer messing in the house.
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The doghouse
New Puppy Mummies Part 2
991 replies
SallyBear · 24/09/2013 13:16
OP posts:
SallyBear ·
26/09/2013 16:36
Yes he has recall if I'm swinging a large piece of ham in his general direction!!
OP posts:
moosemama ·
26/09/2013 16:41
Oh Sally, poor Toby! Hope he's ok. As long as he has plenty of positive experiences, one bad experience should be easily overwritten.
It is difficult though, no dog is 100% reliable and there's always the potential for a normally sociable dog to be feeling off colour and be a bit snappy or decide it's their job to put a pup in it's place.
Lurcherboy is usually really lovely with pups, in fact people often comment on how gentle he is with then for such a big dog, but after Oldgirl died, he had just spent 6 weeks meeting all manner of puppies in the park and playing with them really nicely (we were practically living in the park trying to wear him out so he didn't howl while I did the school run) and he decided to snap at a 13 month old Pointer. Beautiful dog, really gentle and a bit nervous, they played nicely to start with, then Lurcherboy came to heel and sat down by me, the Pointer shot up to him head on and he snapped - no contact, just an air snap, but I'd never seem him do it before and it took me totally by surprise. When I thought about it I realised that at 13 months, adult dogs were unlikely to tolerate bad manners from the Pointer and his communication skills were very poor. Greeting another dog head on like that is a big no, no and Lurcherboy was just telling him to have some respect. I felt awful though, the Pointer ran away, hid behind a tree and wouldn't even come back for my fresh baked liver cake. After it happened the other owner told me that it happens to him a lot, so I guess he wasn't learning anything from being told off by countless adult dogs. Most embarrassingly it was a mum from ds1's year at school. I hadn't spoken to her in years, but she approached me because she kept seeing me across the park and this time our paths actually crossed and both dogs looked as it they wanted to play. 
Pip met his first dog, other than the ones he was fostered with and Lurcherboy, this afternoon.
It was a teeny, tiny Cockerpoo puppy, 2 weeks younger than him - and he towered over it.
He was petrified of it. 
It was super friendly, but really in his face. He backed up to the end of his lead - I couldn't let him off because it was near a carpark and road (the other pup was on an extending lead, but it's owner was on her mobile, so no matter where Pip moved it could still reach him). I tried to get him to come towards me to loosen the tension on the lead, which he did eventually, but in the meantime the poor thing wet himself all over his tail, which was firmly tucked between his legs. 
The owner came off her phone and we had a chat, so I decided the best thing to do was stand just out of distance of the other puppy so he could watch without interacting and try to shove lots of treats down Pip's neck. At first he was too stressed to take a treat, but eventually the Cockerpoo decided Pip was no fun and chewing my shoe was more interesting, so I fussed him and made happy friendly noises, while shoving treats into Pip's mouth and he calmed down.
Then took him over near the children's play area, where he completely ignored all manner of noise, chaos and lots of petting from less-than gentle children. Didn't bat an eyelid to any of it and even showed off his 'high-five' to great appreciation from his audience - so it does seem to be just dogs he's scared of, as I predicted he probably would be.
I'm going to take him up there several times a day without Lurcherboy for a while, just for short trips, to try and meet as many dogs as possible. It won't be easy, as I still have a kidney infection and the last thing I feel like is dog walking/training, but it has to be done and it's literally half a minute from my front door to the park, so at least it's not too far.
I'm not going to be letting Pip off anytime soon, he'd definitely bolt if something scared him. I'm ordering his perfect fit harness tomorrow (been waiting for payday!) and will keep him on a long-line until I'm confident his recall is reliable.
moosemama ·
26/09/2013 17:32
Aw, poor Toby, being friendly, meeting a big old grump like that and even giving him a second chance. Most dogs would be more tolerant of a young pup and make allowances for youth and exuberance, but there will always be those that think it's their job to put the young 'uns in their place. A bit like the elderly people who insist on saying things like 'the youth of today' and 'things were different in my day' etc whilst tutting and rolling their eyes.
With the recall, you were sensible enough to choose a breed that was bred for reliably returning to their owner, whereas I was daft enough to pick one that was bred to spot something in the distance and disappear over the horizon and never look back! I did the same as you with Lurcherboy, as I didn't really know anything about Lurchers back then. He was off lead at 16 weeks old (when we first got him) and quickly developed a really reliable recall and instant down that he's never forgotten. I think it's the Border Collie in his mix that helps with that though and something tells me things aren't going to be so easy with Pip.
SallyBear ·
26/09/2013 18:03
Truth be known Moose, I'm a Labrador girl. Always will be I think. DH's dog was a huge cross lab/roti/gs etc. frightened the crap out of me. So I was adamant that we would get a Labrador, so that is why we got Sally. She was the sweetest thing but never learned to mix as Monty frightened everyone off. Toby is super friendly.
OP posts:
moosemama ·
26/09/2013 18:14
I think once you find the breed for you that's it, you're smitten and no other breed will do.
Dh and I are like that about GSD's but won't have another until the dcs are grown, as we want rescues. Fortunately for us, we both fell in love with Lurchers in the meantime.
basildonbond ·
26/09/2013 19:37
Sorry to hear about all the puppy traumas - hope Toby is feeling ok now
Our drama this morning was Fitz pootling around happily in the garden - I went into the house with him gambolling behind me - I heard a yelp and turned round to see him collapsed in a heap in front of the step going into our kitchen from the patio - he lay there whimpering and yelped when I went to pick him up
He was limping badly on his left front paw so a bit neurotically I whisked him off to the emergency vet - looks like a v minor sprain prob caused by him falling over his own feet
Anyway he was supposed to be resting for the rest of the day so of course he insisted on joining the dc on the trampoline ... Little tinker has forgotten all about his leg hurting now ...
moosemama ·
26/09/2013 20:00
basildon, glad it wasn't anything serious. They really put us through it don't then.
Pip does the same thing several times every day. He's a proper screamer as well. Lord knows what my neighbours must think.
He even does the whole, holding his paw up and hopping along on three legs, looking for all the world like he's got a broken leg. Then if you pick him up, give his paw a stroke and give him a treat he forgets all about it and charges off up the garden again.
He's terrible for playing rough with Lurcherboy, ragging him around and hanging off his beard and tail, then if he gets so much as a tiny bump himself, full on screaming.
When we first brought him home he did it and I thought Lurcherboy had broken his hip or pelvis as they collided mid-charge. Pip literally threw his head back, screamed like a banshee and wouldn't stop even after I scooped him up. I was sure we were off to the emergency vet, then he suddenly stopped, wriggled to get down and off he went again, ragging Lurcherboy!
Dh was convinced at one point that he must have some sort of skeletal/bone condition from poor early nutrition due to his infection and the screaming was as a result of that.
Fortunately his foster mum had warned me he'd done it to her a couple of times and I know from the Sighthound forum I'm on that it's very common for Lurchers to be big wusses have a low pain threshold. 
VikingVagine ·
26/09/2013 20:34
Things are going too well with George. He sleeps through the night (but barks in his sleep ), does his pee and poo on cue in the garden when I get up.
Today we left for work at 8 and DH didn't come home until 1. George was snuggled up in his basket. No pees or poos inside, nothing had been chewed or scratched and he seemed perfectly serene 
However he's not very impressed with the whole idea of a collar let alone a lead.
Awks ·
26/09/2013 21:23
Poor Toby, how scary for the little man. Sounds like he isn't scared for life though.
As for recall its not the coming back that's the issue, it's the buggering off cos as soon as Jarvis realises there is ham in my pocket, I have to peel him off. It's like taking dd1 to reception all over again 
mintchocchick ·
27/09/2013 09:22
The nipping just goes on and on! I think it's a bit better these last 2 days for us but only because we're all clearer and more consistent in our response.
After a few unbroken nights we had puppy crying very loudly at 1am. I went down, turned lights on, took him out, he didn't seem to need to pee or poo so I hung around in the kitchen with him. When I got myself a glass of water he barked again really dramatically and I realised his water bowl was empty and he was asking for a drink!
He drank down so much water before settling off to sleep again. I just hadn't realised how much water he needed at night - he gets a fresh bowl with every feed and at bedtime but he drinks copious amounts. Do other people find this?
moosemama ·
27/09/2013 10:43
So, harvest festival at school this morning. Dh took the dcs and I went down to the school at 9.05 to shorten the length of time Pip was left.
He started making a racket 25 minutes in - which is less then the normal afternoon school run and he's normally quiet for that. Then proceeded to wind himself up and get worse and worse for the next 45 minutes till I got back. He was full on screaming, barking and howling and in the end he even set of Lurcherboy, who I spent ages training out of doing it. He was totally wired when I got home and hadn't eaten all of his kongs.
I feel awful, it's my worst fears confirmed.
Good job we put a note through the neighbours' door last night, apologising in advance, explaining he's never been left that long and that we would be recording him and working on his training.
Can't believe we have the same problem again and am dreading the weeks of training and being trapped in the house it's going to take to sort it out.
moosemama ·
27/09/2013 17:38
Of course you can frownyface. Congratulations on your new addition and well done for taking on a 13 month old, the teenage stage can feel just like the early months, so it's not surprising you feel like you're going through all the same things we are. Hopefully we can all muddle along together. Springers are lovely dogs. I love the way they wag their whole bodies when they're happy.
My normally well behaved, almost 8 year old lurcher decided to do his silly headstrong impression in the park today, so I know how you feel. He is normally a really calm, steady boy, has a fantastic recall and has even been having it reinforced while we train Pip, but today he suddenly forgot all his training and shot off after another dog, completely ignoring his usual recall cue. He did come back eventually, but only once he'd circled the dog a couple of times, bouncing around like a pup the whole while - then when he came back, he snatched a treat, ran off and did it again! [we need a steam coming out of the ears emoticon]
Fortunately the other owner was very laid back and told me not to apologise as he was only playing and to be fair, the other dog was off-lead which is usually a sign that it's ok for your dog to approach, but I always ask the owner before allowing my dogs to play, then give them a release cue and Lurcherboy is fully aware of that fact.
It's really out of character for him. I'm being kind and putting it down to over-excitement at having his new puppy brother in the park with him for the first time, but to say I was less than impressed would be a major understatement.
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moosemama ·
27/09/2013 20:33
We use a gundog whistle as well. Pip is really fast at recalling to it now, as I have only ever used it with massive A grade rewards. It's gobsmacking how fast he can make it from the end of the garden into the kitchen when he hears it - he even comes if he's up to no good and/or scoffing something disgusting.
We were the same with Lurcherboy when we first got him. We had a Soft Coated Wheaten and Belgian Shepherd x Border Collie at the time and were stunned at how fast he could cover ground. He's beautiful to watch when running free though, I love watching sighthounds gallop.
I have recently done an intensive Separation Anxiety programme with Lurcherboy as he developed it after we lost Oldgirl (the BS x BC) to osteosarcoma in April. He had never been an only dog before, having come from his litter, into foster, then to us when we had two other dogs and he couldn't cope with being on his own. It wasn't straightforward SA, as he's not overattached to us. I found out in the end that it was something called Isolation Distress, which isn't about being overattached, but not being able to cope with being totally alone. We were advised by lots of experienced Lurcher people and a couple of behaviourists to work on the worst of his behaviour, then get another dog. Which is what we did. That's why it's so frustrating and disappointing that circumstances have conspired against us to mean Pip is now doing the same thing. It does mean I know what to do to get him over it, but also that I'm fully aware of just how much time and effort that's going to take.
Lifeisontheup (I keep reading your name as Lifeisonthepup! ) I found myself doing the rocking and patting thing as well when we first got Pip. He likes to snuggle with his head over my shoulder and I think it was just automatic after 3 dcs.
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